♪ ♪ NARRATOR: Second Story Books celebrating 50 years of dedicated book selling.

♪ (theme music playing) ♪ WENDEL PATRICK: "Artworks" is made possible in part by The Citizens of Baltimore County and by the Ruth R. Marder Arts Endowment Fund, the Robert E. Meyerhoff and Rheda Becker Endowment for the Arts, the E.T.

& Robert B. Rocklin Fund, The Henry and Ruth Blaustein Rosenberg Foundation Arts Endowment in memory of Ruth Marder.

(student rapping, vocalizing).

(student rapping, vocalizing).

(student rapping, vocalizing).

(student vocalizing).

(student vocalizing).

(clapping).

WENDEL: Yeah!

So that's killing.

So you, you all are gonna do that one, uh, on December 7th on the performance, right?

SINGER: Yeah.

WENDEL: Okay, uh, just a couple quick things, um, you all should consider, uh, oh, we talked about this like some, like some vocal effects processing.

Have you all thought about that?

Like how you might do that?

We'll talk about that, actually, next week, 'cause I think there's some really great opportunities, especially for some of the atmospheric things that you're doing, um, as well.

Uh, but great job.

STUDENT: Yay.

WENDEL: Yeah.

My name is Wendell Patrick.

I'm the host of "Artworks."

I'm an associate professor at the Peabody Conservatory of Music, and I'm the director of the new hip hop degree program here.

Well, I don't have anything to compare it to, which, which may be a, a, a good thing.

You know, here at Peabody, I've been supported wholeheartedly by the administration and by the university and, and by Johns Hopkins.

Um, I started teaching here in 2016.

I was invited to teach a class on hip hop.

Uh, I was asking Vid Smooke, who's a faculty member here, who was the one who invited me to teach this class.

And Vid said, you can teach whatever you want.

Uh, I started out teaching a, a hip hop history class, the class was actually called, uh, Hip Hop Music Production History, uh, and Practice.

Uh, that class was so successful, uh, added an upper-level class, and those classes would always fill up immediately with three students, but they all brought their friends.

So, um, they brought their three friends, we had six students, and that quickly was, you know, eight students, 10 students, 12 students, and then it jumped to almost 30 students, you know, started thinking about, um, having a hip hop degree.

So then, of course, the planning and implementation, uh, you know, one of the things that I've, that's always been important to me is to make the people that I admired growing up, the people that made hip hop fun for me, um, and impactful for me, making them proud, uh, with this degree program.

And so, yeah, it's, it's been quite a process and, um, really happy to be where we are.

Here in this program, you can specialize in four different areas.

You can get a Bachelor of Music, uh, in hip hop as a rapper, as a beatboxer, as a producer, or as a turntablist.

Um, so we have faculty, uh, across all four of those specific areas.

Right, so, um, I do a lot of different things, but I'm the production faculty currently.

Uh, the rap professor is, uh, none other than Lupe Fiasco, who, uh, is doing amazing work at MIT, um, and is also a Fellow at Yale.

Um, uh, DJ Babu is the turntable faculty, uh, the legendary Beat Junkies and Dilated Peoples.

And then, uh, one of my dear friends and one of the best beat boxers that I know, uh, Max Bent, is the beatbox faculty.

And, uh, so yeah, that's the, that is the super team currently.

DJ BABU: I think it's exciting.

You know, I, when you look at hip hop, relatively speaking, it's a very young art form or culture compared to jazz, even, let's say, or anything, right?

So we're barely scratching the surface and that, and it's exciting to see it here at Peabody in the new school, all these other places embracing it, like on this higher level.

And I love it.

I think it's amazing.

And this is coming from someone who takes very much pride in being self-taught in their own art.

And I remember there was a, there was a struggle, especially with me going from DJ to producer in a rap group, and I'm trying to elevate in that world, I remember hitting this point where thinking to myself, because I was just playing by ear, you know, I, I would just hit as many keys as I could until it was in key.

"Oh, there's the one key," you know, I, I don't really have any training.

Uh, and I really started considering, like, maybe I should just take some rudimentary music lessons just to connect some of these dots.

And then I said to myself, no, 'cause you're gonna lose your funk.

Like, that way you played it off was great.

And this is many years ago.

Now, I definitely think I was wrong.

I would've not lost any funk.

I probably would've been way better than I am now.

So I say that all, in respect to your question, I love it being institutionalized.

That sounds like a, a, a bad word here, a dirty word, I love it being embraced by higher education, maybe that's way, the way I look at it, I think it's like, wow, y'all finally woke up and saw how amazing this, this culture and art form is.

So I'm all for it.

I think every major school or university should have a hip hop department and a degree, like, and, uh, I hope this is like the first domino that sets that wave off.

MAX BENT: It's humbling to be, to be totally honest, probably the first of its kind in a lot of its features, right?

So it's actually quite crazy to be part of this faculty.

It's, it also has forced, forced me to, in, in working directly with a beatbox student, to really think deeply about my own art form and my own practice.

So to, to present it in, in a way that I think will help them and help them advance.

Culturally, it is, I mean, it is the primary music culture that I have been educated by.

So it's personal to me how I understand music is through that lens and through others.

But I learned more about the, the journey that jazz took to becoming part of higher education.

And so I, I guess I look at hip hop as an extension of jazz, and I look at higher education, taking on hip hop is, is similar to what happened with jazz, so I guess it's kind of like written in the past.

LUPE FIASCO: It's a, it's a little bit of, of kind of cross pollination, right?

So hip hop has its benefits, Peabody has its benefits, and when they come together, hopefully they will both kind of like maximize or magnify each other's benefits with each other, but also sacrifices kind of have to be made, right?

So that's kind like the premise.

It's important to have a place that is involved in structure, um, and format, but it's also important to have the kinda wild style, pun intended, element of kind of hip hop being a sort of a entrepreneurial self-taught in some cases kind of thing.

And there's lessons and, and, and benefits in each of those practices.

But I feel like, at least for me, um, it's more optimal to have both.

Um, and so Peabody kinda having a reputation for being that formal, classical structured place, it feels like the optimal home for something like hip hop.

In general, it is a big, a big thing to say that, you know, a place like Peabody, um, has a hip hop department.

Like that, in itself, is kind of revolutionary.

Um, but in practice, you know, I think it's important to, to make sure both sides kind of get that, get the shine, yeah.

WENDEL: DJ Babu.

DJ BABU: Wendel Patrick.

WENDEL: How are you?

DJ BABU: I'm great, how are you?

WENDEL: I'm good, good.

You're here in Baltimore.

DJ BABU: I'm here, I can't believe it, I'm here with you in Baltimore at Peabody.

Long time, we've been talking about this for a long time.

WENDEL: Yeah, yeah.

It's great to have you on the faculty for so many reasons.

DJ BABU: It, it, it's a bug out to even hear you say that to me.

I'm still processing, um, I'm still pinching myself and still can't believe, uh, the opportunity to be part of the faculty here at Peabody.

So exciting for me, it's crazy.

WENDEL: Well I had to tell you, this degree was a, a long time in the making, and you know, even now, I've actually found myself pinching myself, the fact that it's actually here.

Um, you know, the fact that people that I admire for so many years are super interested in it.

And just to have you here is, uh, is awesome.

DJ BABU: So when did, when did the program actually start?

Last year was the actual first year?

WENDEL: So, well, it depends on how you look at it, so this is the first year that we have students.

So we have the freshman class here now; which started in August.

Um, but really all of last year was, uh, in some ways the first year, 'cause we had, uh, the announcement, then we had applications, uh, we had early admissions and, uh, pre screenings, and then auditions in the spring, um, and then acceptances, and that all led to this first actual degree year with all the students here, so, yeah.

DJ BABU: That's mind-blowing.

I mean, your mind must still be blown.

It's crazy.

WENDEL: It is.

DJ BABU: I feel like this conversation, even just talking it's still it's like, is this, is this factual, factual, or is this just, they're making this up?

WENDEL: Yeah, no, it's definitely, it's definitely blown, um, there's a lot of logistics now, um, you know, super excited to actually have our next round of applicants for year two.

So next year we'll have freshmen and sophomores and, you know, on our way to having a fully populated four-year bachelor of hip hop degree.

DJ BABU: God is good.

God is good, that's amazing.

WENDEL: Yeah, yeah.

DJ BABU: I'm, I'm, I can't even believe.

Well, it's my first day literally here as faculty, so, uh, I'm ripe, I'm green, I'm just, eyes are wide open and, uh, I think I know what to expect, but then I don't.

WENDEL: Yeah, well, you know, you, you may or may not know this, but, uh, we've talked about it a little bit, but you have been a huge influence on, on me and, uh, on how I teach and a lot of what I do here.

And in fact, the "Scratch" documentary, which is still my favorite, uh, DJ turntable, uh, documentary, I've been showing that in classes of mine since 2004 or 2005 when I taught at Loyola University.

DJ BABU: Crazy.

WENDEL: Um, and, uh, yeah, I, you know, the, the things that you said in that documentary were just super powerful and, and inspiring and, you know, I could, I could tell even back then that you were, um, just a, an, an excellent communicator and you just had so much knowledge and, uh, you know, just watching the documentary and showing it to my students, I felt like you were passing on information really for all these years.

I've been showing that documentary here as well, so.

DJ BABU: No, thank you, man.

I, you know, I, uh, it's weird the, the ripples from that documentary, 'cause you know, I, I haven't seen it in a long time, but I, I probably never really talked about this, but I always felt like, 'cause they followed us around on tour, you know, we had this huge tour and, um, and, and when everything hit the cutting room floor, and like, I saw the first cut of it and stuff, I was kind of like, I, you know, just inside my head, I'm like, "Oh, they didn't really use a lot of my stuff."

And then I saw the cover and stuff, I'm like, "Oh, dang, I didn't even really like make any of the, the promo stuff."

And like, and I just kind of was like on the low bummed.

WENDEL: Yeah.

DJ BABU: But then, you know, many years later, um, gosh, I don't know how many people have hit me up about my small appearances in that documentary and, and all the kind words I've gotten and, and stuff from it.

But, um, you know, at that time I was just very raw and young, I was just so excited to be in a rap group and have a record deal, and people know my, my battle routines from DMC battles and stuff.

WENDEL: Mm-hmm.

DJ BABU: But, um, I had no idea if you told me back then that I would be teaching here or have Beat Junkies have our own school in Los Angeles, I... WENDEL: Yeah.

DJ BABU: Uh, I wouldn't have, uh, I would've said, "Get the hell outta here.

You're crazy," you know?

WENDEL: Yeah.

DJ BABU: Um, but no, and, and I didn't recognize anything that you saw in the video, I thought I was just being like, braggadocious and stupid to be honest with you, but... WENDEL: No!

DJ BABU: You know, but, um... WENDEL: What's, what's funny is, you know, obviously you, you were, um, privy to knowing, like, I guess, like what did get left on the cutting room floor, right?

But so for those of us that are watching, like we, we don't know.

And I, I, I remember very clearly, like a lot of the things that you said really stuck with me, like the way you said them, like when you were talking about, um, DST, and, you know, there's that constant reference to, to, to Rockit throughout the documentary.

DJ BABU: Yes.

WENDEL: And when you're like, you know, not only was you're like, he was the highlight, you're like, like that, you know, when you talk about, uh, coming up with like Babu the turntablist, and like how you like, you know, it's something I'd write on my mix tapes.

And, uh, so yeah, all of that stuff really, really sat with me and honestly, um, is one of the, one of the main reasons why I, I thought of you, um, to be the turntable professor here, you know, because, because of your, your experience, your wealth of knowledge, but also that, that you communicate ideas and, um, yeah, so you're, you're right, those ripples are, are real.

DJ BABU: Oh and, and I'm honored, it's like, uh, you know, what we do as artists making beats, DJing, MC and beatbox, whatever, that, that, that's one thing, but to also say that we're instructors, teachers or professors is like, uh, it's a whole other humbling experience, you know?

'Cause a lot of my hurdles with teaching, like when I really, when it really comes down to it, the medium doesn't really matter you know, whether I'm teaching scratching or physics.

It's, there's an art to teaching, you know, that like, um, and I've drawn a lot of inspiration since then and now for, you know, I've, you know, just creating our own business, I've studied other instructors, martial arts... WENDEL: Yeah.

DJ BABU: ...Dance studios, like, you know, and... WENDEL: Your own business being the Beat Junkies Institute?

DJ BABU: Our, our school at home, you know what I mean?

And, uh, so it was a really hard learning curve when we opened our school and I had to learn how to stand in front of a class and engage and keep them interested, be articulate about concepts that maybe someone who has nothing knows zero about, right, um, and it was a real reality check teaching my first class.

WENDEL: Yeah.

DJ BABU: And, um, but you know, to think now here I am eight years later, um, having this opportunity, being part of the faculty of the oldest music cons, conservatory in North America, like, um, it's so humbling and I'm just so excited for all the possibilities, man, even this is one of those things, I have a, I have a, I have a career where my mother and father never understood what I did until something like, oh, our video's on TV, that's, you know, this is like way deep into my journey.

I'm like, they're like, "Wow, okay, my son is..." Then they, they then they start talking to the relatives and the friends, "Oh, my, my son's on '106 and Park,' you ever watch BET?"

Like, but up until then, like they really just, oh, I don't know what, I don't know what he does, you know?

WENDEL: Sure.

DJ BABU: Um, but please believe when I told my mother that I'm gonna be faculty at Peabody, um, mind blown, crazy.

And, you know, you know this, but you know, I, I spent time here growing up being a Navy brat here in Washington, D.C., and in the Maryland area, it's where I was born.

So when I mentioned Peabody, you know, the first thing my mom says, "Oh my gosh, I remember driving by Peabody on my way to this one hospital I used to work at..." And, and so it's a very full circle being here and, um, yeah, I can't, I'm, my mind's been on fire ever since, like, we, we, we locked it in, you know, so.

WENDEL: One of the things that you and I talked about is the fact that, um, and this is something I think we both have in common, is that when we started teaching, we were both just like, uh, what are we doing?

You know, like, I remember being like, I, I don't know if I know how to actually do this.

And I, I don't know if I told you this, but the reason why I started teaching in college back in 2001 was because I was asked to teach, uh, piano there, they had like an overflow, they had like two students that didn't have a, a teacher.

And I, I wanted to buy some gear, and I was like, oh, well, I'll do it for a semester, and we'll make a little extra money and buy this uh, it was a Korg, uh, D32, it was like the, like a large standalone recorder.

And, um, I figured, you know, I'll just sort of wing it and just like, you know, get a check, and I ended up absolutely loving it, you know?

I had no idea if I was any good at it, but I, but I really loved, um, you know, engaging with students and just sort of like, just seeing them get excited about what I was teaching and, um, you know, that was 24 years ago, you know, and if, if you had told me back then, if you told me 10 years ago that, um, I'd be, you know, starting a, a, a, a hip hop degree with, uh, some of my favorites on faculty, I would've, I would've laughed.

I would've chuckled, you know?

DJ BABU: But hey, that's so funny, it just started with you wanting to like, get the studio cracking at home.

(laughing).

WENDEL: Yeah.

DJ BABU: Just that.

But let me ask you this, um, but you, since you do have a classically trained background in piano, um, how does that apply to your hip hop degree when you're teaching hip hop degree?

Does a lot of that come into play, or do you find it?

WENDEL: So I would say that a lot of it comes into play with, with, with what I do in general, whether it's producing or, um, you know, even just like as a hip hop performer, like I, like, I find myself often thinking about things, um, like harmonically or melo, melodically, um, along the lines of like, maybe some of the stuff that I study, whether it's composition, well, I never, I never formally studied composition, but I was always writing things, you know?

Um, and that's something that I, I never thought would really translate.

And so one of the things that I was really passionate about when putting this degree together is, um, the fact that one, like everything I learned, I have learned in hip hop, I did not learn in a school, right?

Like, I've learned from, um, from watching, watching videos of people that I admired, or maybe you come across... DJ BABU: Right.

WENDEL: Um, you know, somebody that you've respected or you know, you have a chance to talk to, so you ask him like, like, how did you make this, this beat like, what, you know, what sampler did you use?

Like what, what... DJ BABU: Right.

WENDEL: What was this trick that you used?

Um, but, uh, for me, just like in terms of my professional life, um, being able to draw on everything that I have, which includes sort of like my, you know, my, my piano technique or piano chops, like, that's where finger drumming comes, comes from for me.

And I didn't even make that connection until I was producing something and, you know, making a little drum, drumbeat, and I was like, oh, you know, it's, it's like, um, like in, in the Spider-Man movies where he like wakes up and he's like, you know, like realizes, you know, he's got these, this stuff and I think for all of us, you realize you have, like, you have all of this stuff that you, that you've built, you've built up and, um... DJ BABU: I never thought about the finger drumming, that makes perfect sense.

WENDEL: Yeah, and the thing is, I never thought about it either until I started actually... DJ BABU: Because you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't finger drum like this, like, you're like... (makes sound).

You know what I'm saying?

Like, dang, how many sounds does he have?

WENDEL: That's where that comes from.

DJ BABU: So that makes perfect sense, 'cause wow, you usually have 61 keys or whatever, and like, ah, I can use 10 pads, that's it, like, you know, like... WENDEL: Yeah.

DJ BABU: A lot of beat makers, I know, it's just like maybe three or four pads and they're, and they're going like this, you know?

I do notice your technique is very multi-fingered, like a lot more pads involved than, uh, the, the normal cat I'd see, you know?

WENDEL: Yeah, that all comes from the piano for me.

DJ BABU: That's so crazy, I never thought of that.

WENDEL: Yeah.

DJ BABU: Duh.

WENDEL: So, um, you know, you, you and I have both been around for a little while... DJ BABU: A little bit.

(laughs).

WENDEL: Um, so I'm just wondering, just, just for you especially, you know, being here now, like how do you feel about, um, I'd say like the, like the stage that hip hop is in now, knowing that you've, you've had a role for numerous decades that has affected lots of people, um, and being here, you know, being here at Peabody, like, how, what are your thoughts about hip hop, where it's going, where it is?

DJ BABU: I guess I'm always grateful it's, it's around, and I mean, it's, I still remember hip hop when it was a subculture, and, you know, we were all like, it was all of our little secret and so exciting, just the whole, the fashion, the style, the lingo, the music, everything, the, you know, the visual, the art, the dance, like, you know, but we are here in 2025, and like, it's bigger than ever.

It's everywhere, you know?

Um, and I'm not one to complain, you know what I mean?

I think you have to look at things relative to where you're at in, in the timeline.

And, uh, so I find myself, I always feel as if there's, there's excellent stuff out there, and there's wack stuff, but us as a consumer or as fans or listeners or whatever you call it, um, there's, there's levels to that too.

And if you're just someone who casually turns on the radio and, and music is just that 15 minutes of you getting to and from work, or there's other people who, I, I go to a record store, I might even buy vinyl, or I just spend hours curating my Spotify playlist and, you know, my friends think I'm the, the best, I have the best playlist, you know, whatever there is, there's, there's degrees to it.

And I think there's something for everyone, depending what, how you're looking at it.

So, you know, if, if to you hip hop is turntables, vinyls, people spinning on their backs and battle ciphers that is alive and well.

WENDEL: Mm-hmm.

DJ BABU: If you want it to be light and it's infused with R&B and garage and it's cutting, there's, you can find plenty of that too.

So I, I, I, I think it's in a great place.

I do feel what commercial, the successful end and, and what the culture is, there's always a big gap.

And I guess that's why I do what I do.

Uh, 'cause I can appreciate that and I can appreciate this and I think there's a, there's a, there's a lot to be said about the new generation just, they just missed things, and we can't be mad at them for where they're dropping in the timeline, you know?

I think, 'cause you know, you grow older in any kind of culture, it's up to the elders to pass things on, and you're responsible for that, whether you like it or not, whether you're at teaching at a university, or if you're having a conversation with someone on the street, and that's my nephew or whatever I'm talking to.

So, um, part of me thinks of that and, uh, I hate that gap.

WENDEL: Mm-hmm.

DJ BABU: I hate it.

I like, I see a new DJ or a new MC, a new rapper, like, "Hey, MC, so and so, you should know who Rakim or Melle Mel is, or whoever..." "Hey, you should know who Rock Raider and Grandmaster Flash are."

I mean, I think the, one of the most unique things about hip hop culture is, um, I think whatever element is, we've always encouraged everyone to do their knowledge, know their history, know their family tree, you know?

And, uh, so I'm, I'm happy to, to help facilitate that and fill in the gaps, you know, for the, for the next generation.

WENDEL: Well, happy to have you here to help fill in those gaps.

DJ BABU: Thanks for having me.

WENDEL: "Artworks" is made possible in part by The Citizens of Baltimore County and by the Ruth R. Marder Arts Endowment Fund, the Robert E. Meyerhoff and Rheda Becker Endowment for the Arts, the E.T.

& Robert B. Rocklin Fund, The Henry and Ruth Blaustein Rosenberg Foundation Arts Endowment in memory of Ruth Marder.

♪ ♪ NARRATOR: Second Story Books celebrating 50 years of dedicated book selling.