>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

CONFLICTING RATIONALES MOVING GOALPOSTS AND STILL NO AFTER PLANE AS THE U. S. WAR ON EBONICS DANCE.

I ASKED SENATE DEMOCRAT CHRIS MERCY HAS THE U. S. GOTTEN INTO SOMETHING IT DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO GET OUT OF?

> >> THAN SAUDI ARABIA, ONE OF AMERICA'S KEY PARTNERS RISKS BEING DRAWN INTO THE FRAY.

THE SAUDI FORMER INTELLIGENCE CHIEF JOINS ME, AND THE FORMER BRITISH INTELLIGENCE CHIEF ALSO.

> >> AS FRACTURES APPEAR BETWEEN WASHINGTON AND CLOSE ALLIES.

> >> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENTS, JIM ATTWOOD & LESLIE WILLIAMS , CANDICE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

& SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAM ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI- SEMITISM.

THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON & JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE SHOWING WARSHAW, KOO & PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND THE CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU, THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

ISRAEL IS CONDUCTING YET ANOTHER WAVE OF STRIKES ACROSS IRAN AND LEBANON, WHILE THE U. S. SAYS ITS HEAVIEST ATTACKS ARE STILL TO COME.

THERE IS DEFENSE SECRETARY PETE HEGSETH: >> I STAND BEFORE YOU TODAY WITH ONE UNMISTAKABLE MESSAGE ABOUT OPERATION EPIC THEORY.

AMERICA IS WINNING.

DECISIVELY, DEVASTATINGLY, AND WITHOUT MERCY.

>> CHILLING, BUT FIVE DAYS IN, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO PROTECT A CLEAR AND UNIFIED MESSAGE AFTER FAILING QUITE SPECTACULARLY TO ANSWER BASIC QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MISSION, INCLUDING ITS OBJECTIVE, JUSTIFICATION, DAY AFTER PLANE, AN EXIT STRATEGY.

IT IS BEING CALLED A WAR OF CHOICE BY MANY, SINCE THERE WAS NO IMMINENT IRANIAN THREAT ACCORDING TO EXPERTS AND ALLIES.

IT WAS LAUNCHED WITHOUT CONGRESS AND WITH MOST AMERICANS OPPOSE, ACCORDING TO POLLS.

TEHRAN MEANWHILE WIDENING IT SCOPE OF RETALIATION, EARLIER, NATO ALLY TURKEY REPORTED THAT THE NATO [ INAUDIBLE ] SHOT DOWN AN IRANIAN MISSILE THAT WAS HEADED FOR ITS AIRSPACE.

INSIDE IRAN, CIVILIANS ARE PAYING THE HIGHEST PRICE, MORE THAN 1000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED, ACCORDING TO U. S.

-BASED HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP, THAT INCLUDES 168 CHILDREN KILLED IN A STRIKE ON A GIRLS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

THIS VIDEO SHOWS THE LINES OF GRAVES WHERE THEY HAVE NOW BEEN BURIED.

ISRAEL AND THE UNITED STATES SAY THEY ARE INVESTIGATING THIS INCIDENT.

THE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY IS ON THE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE AND HE WAS AMONGST A GROUP OF SENATORS, THE WHOLE CHAMBER BRIEFED BY SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO ON TUESDAY EVENING.

HE JOINED ME EARLIER FROM CAPITOL HILL JUST A SAID -- AHEAD OF THE [ INAUDIBLE ].

SENATOR MURPHY, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> CAN I JUST ASK YOU, BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN, I THINK AN ATTEMPT TO HAVE A DIFFERENT KIND OF UNIFIED MESSAGING, A UNIFYING RATIONALE.

WE HEARD PETE HEGSETH SAY AMERICA IS WINNING DECISIVELY, DEVASTATINGLY, AND WITHOUT MERCY.

WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROGRESS OF THIS WAR ON IRAN?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I HAVE NO IDEA WHY WE ENTERED THIS WAR, BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP HAS ONE STORY AND MARCO RUBIO HAS ANOTHER STORY.

RUBIO SAYS WE GOT DRAGGED INTO THE WAR BY ISRAEL, HE HAS EFFECTIVELY SAID THAT, THAT THIS WAS A DEFENSIVE ACTION BECAUSE WE WERE WORRIED THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES.

PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS NO, IN FACT WE DROP ISRAEL INTO THIS WAR.

THEY HAVE LOTS OF DIFFERENT GOALS, THEY SEEM TO BE TARGETING THE NUCLEAR PROGRAM, THE MISSILE PROGRAM, TRUMP SEEMS TO BE TALKING PRETTY REGULARLY ABOUT REGIME CHANGE, CHEERLEADING THE IRANIAN PEOPLE TO COME OUT INTO THE STREETS.

IT IS REALLY UNCLEAR TO ME, EVEN AFTER HAVING SAT IN THE BRIEFING YESTERDAY WHY WE ENTERED THE WAR AND WHAT THE GOALS ARE.

IT LOOKS AS IF IT IS PRETTY OPEN-ENDED, THAT WE MAY BE AT WAR WITH IRAN, BOMBING IRAN FOR MONTHS, IF NOT THE BETTER PART OF THIS YEAR .

THIS IS ABOUT AS INCOHERENT, INCOMPETENT, AND CONFUSING A ROLLOUT OF MILITARY ACTION OVERSEAS AS I HAVE EVER SEEN.

>> CAN I JUST STOP YOU THERE AND PICK UP ON WHAT YOU JUST SAID , MONTHS OR THE BETTER PART OF THE REST OF THIS YEAR, THAT IS 11 MONTHS TO BE PRECISE.

ISRAEL, AS WE KNOW, HAS DONE THAT IN GAZA FOR TWO YEARS AFTER OCTOBER 7th.

YOU THINK THAT THE UNITED STATES IS CAPABLE OF BOMBING A COUNTRY FOR A WHOLE OTHER YEAR?

>> SO, THIS IS WHAT I HEARD YESTERDAY.

THOUGH DONALD TRUMP HAS TALKED ABOUT REGIME CHANGE, AND CERTAINLY ISRAEL IS TALKING ABOUT REGIME CHANGE, AND OF COURSE, THIS HAS TO BE A REGIME CHANGE OPERATION, BECAUSE THEY SPECIFICALLY TARGETED THE AYATOLLAH AND MANY PEOPLE SURROUNDING HIM, IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY SEEM LIKE WE CARE TOO MUCH RUNS THE COUNTRY.

OUR INTELLIGENCE SERVICES ACKNOWLEDGED THAT IT WILL BE HARD-LINERS THAT WILL STILL BE COMMITTED TO PROVOCATION IN THE REGION AND REBUILDING A MISSILE PROGRAM AND REBUILDING A NUCLEAR PROGRAM, AND IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT WE ARE GOING TO SUPPORT THE IRANIAN PEOPLE IN THEIR EFFORTS TO OVERTAKE THE REGIME AND START A TRANSITION TO DEMOCRACY, SO IF THAT IS ALL TRUE, THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU COULD STOP IRAN FROM RESTARTING ITS MISSILE PROGRAM, RESTARTING ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM, RESTARTING ITS DRONE PROGRAM , IS TO BE CONSTANTLY BOMBING IRAN.

EVERY TIME THEY TRIED TO START A NEW DRONE FACTORY, YOU BOMB THAT FACTORY.

THAT SEEMS TO BE THE ADMINISTRATION'S PLAN RIGHT NOW, THAT IS A RECIPE FOR ALMOST ENDLESS WAR IN THE REGION.

THAT IS --I THINK WOULD BE SHOCKING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, BUT I DON'T REALLY KNOW ANY OTHER WAY TO READ THEIR STRATEGY OR THEIR EXPLANATION OF THEIR STRATEGY.

>> SO, DO YOU THINK --YOU HAVE LOOKED AT THE POLLS, RIGHT?

YOU KNOW WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE THINKING, WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?

YOU KNOW, OFTEN WHEN A COUNTRY GOES TO WORK, PEOPLE RALLY AROUND THE FLAG, ET CETERA.

ARE THEY DOING THAT, WHAT DO THE POLLS TELL YOU?

>> I MEAN, PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA WHY WE ARE AT WAR WITH IRAN.

THE PRESIDENT DID ABSOLUTELY NO WORK AT EXPLAINING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHY THIS WAS ESSENTIAL.

BY --EVEN BACK IN THE IRAQ WAR DAYS, THAT ENDED UP BEING A VERY UNPOPULAR WAR, THE PRESIDENT EXPLAINED IT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

DONALD TRUMP HASN'T TOLD FOLKS WHY WE ARE DOING THIS, IT IS GOING TO BE INCREASINGLY UNPOPULAR.

IT IS ALREADY SUPPORTED BY MAYBE ONLY 30% OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, BUT AS PRICES CONTINUE TO GO UP, OIL PRICES, THE PRICE OF GROCERIES GO UP, AS MORE AMERICANS GET KILLED, AND WE WERE TOLD IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS YESTERDAY DURING THE BRIEFING THAT MORE AMERICANS ARE GOING TO DIE, THIS IS GOING TO BE, MAYBE THE MOST UNPOPULAR MILITARY ENGAGEMENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY.

THE PRESIDENT'S APPROVAL RATINGS ARE ALREADY AROUND 30% ARE GOING TO PLUMMET INTO THE 20s AND THE TEENS.

THIS SHOULDN'T BE ABOUT POLITICS, BUT NOBODY IN AMERICA ONCE THIS WORK, AND MAYBE EVEN FEWER GO BACK THE PRESIDENT NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES BECAUSE HE IS THERE GUY ARE GOING TO BE ALONG FOR THE RIDE IN THE LONG RUN.

>> HE MENTIONED THE IRANIAN PEOPLE AND WE ALL WATCHED WHAT HAPPENED IN LATE DECEMBER, EARLY JANUARY, THE DEMONSTRATIONS, THE BRUTAL CRACKDOWN, THE KILLING OF WHAT --THOUSANDS OF IRANIAN PROTESTERS.

THE PRESIDENT CLEARLY AND SO DID NETANYAHU CALLED ON THEM TO RISE UP, THAT'S THE PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL, AND THAT HOPE WOULD BE ON THE WAY.

THE PRESIDENT AND NETANYAHU AGAIN ASKED THEM AND CALLED ON THEM TO DO THAT ONCE THE WAR HAD ALREADY STARTED ON SATURDAY.

WHAT DID YOU HEAR FROM SECRETARY RUBIO ABOUT THE COMMITMENT TO HELPING THE IRANIAN PEOPLE IS INDEED THEY DO TAKE AMERICA UP ON WHAT IT'S URGING THEM TO DO, AND THAT HIS PROTEST AND TRY TO OVER TO THROW THEIR REGIME ?

>> IS SO, IT APPEARS TO ME THAT WE ARE NOT WILLING --THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS NOT WILLING, BASED ON THE COMMENTS THEY HAVE MADE TO US , TO SUPPORT THE IRANIAN PEOPLE IN THEIR EFFORTS TO DEPOSE THIS REGIME AND START A TRANSITION TO A DEMOCRACY, AND THAT IS UNFORGIVABLE , GIVEN THE FACT THAT AS YOU MENTIONED, DONALD TRUMP HAS TOLD THE IRANIAN PEOPLE TO GET OUT INTO THE STREETS, BUT IF THEY GO OUT INTO THE STREETS, THEY'RE GOING TO BE SLAUGHTERED.

THE IRANIAN MILITARY IS STILL VERY POWERFUL.

WE MAYBE HAVE TAKEN OUT THEIR MISSILE CAPABILITY, BUT WE HAVEN'T TAKEN OUT THERE ABILITY TO WAGE WAR DOMESTICALLY ON THE STREETS OF IRAN, AND IF WE ARE GOING TO ENCOURAGE THE IRANIAN PEOPLE TO COME OUT ON THE STREETS, AND THEN PULL THE RUG OUT FROM UNDER THEM, NOT GIVE THEM THE SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED --AND BY THE WAY, AN AIR CAMPAIGN DOESN'T HELP THEM IN , YOU KNOW, PEACEFUL PROTESTS, THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE AMERICAN GROUND FORCES.

IT SEEMS THAT WE ARE READY AND TO LEAD THE IRANIAN PEOPLE OUT TO DRY, THAT WE ARE GOING TO TELL THEM GET OUT ONTO THE STREETS, AND THAT WE ARE GOING TO GIVE THEM NO SUPPORT, REMINISCENT OF HUNGRY DURING THE COLD WAR, IRAQ IN THE 1990s, THERE COULD BE A SLAUGHTER OF FOOT IS THE IRANIAN PEOPLE THINK THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS THEIR BACK, BUT DONALD TRUMP, I DON'T THINK HAS ANY INTENTION TO GO THAT FAR.

>> THAT WOULD BE A TERRIBLE BETRAYAL, SENATOR, THE PRESIDENT HAS STOOD UP IN PUBLIC OVER AND AGAIN URGING THEM AND MISSING THEM THAT HOPE IS ON THE WAY.

I KNOW THAT HEGSETH YESTERDAY SAID THIS IS NOT ABOUT REGIME CHANGE, SO WHAT HAS CHANGED, DO YOU THINK?

>> I DON'T THINK ANYTHING HAS CHANGED, THEY'RE JUST INCOMPETENT AND INCOHERENT.

I THINK EVERY SINGLE DAY, DONALD TRUMP GIVES A DIFFERENT RATIONALE FOR THE WAR.

THIS IS JUST WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A SENILE OLD MAN SURROUNDED BY A BUNCH OF INCOMPETENT SYCOPHANTS MAKING DECISIONS AS SERIOUS AS WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

ONE DAY THEY SAY THE IRANIAN PEOPLE, GET OUT THERE, TAKE OVER THE GOVERNMENT.

THE NEXT DAY THEY SAY, ACTUALLY WE DON'T CARE WHO IS IN CHARGE OF IRAN.

IF YOU WANT TO GO OUT THERE AND TRY TO TAKE OUT THIS REGIME, IRANIAN PEOPLE, YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN.

I THINK THE RHETORIC WILL FLIP ANOTHER SIX TIMES BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT MONDAY, THAT'S JUST WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO SIGN UP FOR THE JOB, WHEN YOU HAVE A TALKSHOW HOST RUNNING THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT IS PRETTY DIRECT, IN THEIR FACE.

BUT TO BE FRANK, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WONDERING WHO IS THINKING WHAT, BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU DESCRIBE IN THE CENTER OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE PENTAGON AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

IN A PRESS BRIEFING YESTERDAY, ACTUALLY WITH ONE OF HIS KEY EUROPEAN ALLIES, HE SPOKE TO WHAT YOU ALSO TALKED ABOUT, THEY DON'T REALLY CARE OR KNOW OR HAVE A PLAN FOR WHOM I TAKE OVER.

AT FIRST, HE WAS ASKED ABOUT THE SON OF THE LATE SHOP, WHO HAS POSITIONED HIMSELF AS A LEADING OPPOSITION FIGURE.

TRUMPET SERNA BRUSHED HIM ASIDE AND SAID IT WOULD BE BETTER TO TALK TO AND TO DEAL WITH SOMEBODY FROM THE INSIDE, BUT THEN HE SAID THIS.

LISTEN TO HIS WORST-CASE SCENARIO.

>> I GUESS THE WORST CASE WOULD BE WE DO THIS AND THEN SOMEBODY TAKES OVER WHO IS AS BAD AS THE PREVIOUS PERSON, RIGHT?

THAT COULD HAPPEN.

WE DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.

THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE THE WORST YOU GO THROUGH THIS, AND THEN IN FIVE YEARS, YOU REALIZE YOU PUT SOMEBODY IN WHO WAS NO BETTER.

>> I MEAN, I LITERALLY CANNOT BELIEVE IT.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT IS ACTUALLY THE MOST LIKELY SCENARIO POINT I MEAN, THE AYATOLLAH WAS AN EVIL HUMAN BEING, BUT HE WAS AN OLD MAN WHO DIDN'T HAVE FUNCTIONAL CONTROL OF THE COUNTRY.

HIS OBSOLESCENCE WAS NOT COINCIDENTAL TO IRAN'S DIMINISHING INFLUENCE IN THE REGION , AND SO, WHAT HAVE WE DONE HERE?

WE HAVE TAKEN OUT AN 80-YEAR- OLD GUY REALLY HAD LITTLE CONTROL OVER THE IRANIAN INFRASTRUCTURE, WHO WAS LOSING INFLUENCE IN THE REGION, AND WE HAVE GIVEN THE IRG C THE ABILITY TO PUT SOMEONE IN CHARGE WHO IS A MUCH MORE COMPETENT, AND PERHAPS IS ABLE TO --AS MBS DID IN SAUDI ARABIA, TAKE A VERY DIFFUSE DECISION-MAKING SYSTEM AND LEADERSHIP SYSTEM AND CONSOLIDATE IT.

I MEAN, THE MOST LIKELY OUTCOME IS WHAT TRUMP JUST TOLD REPORTERS IN A PRESS CONFERENCE, THAT THIS IS GOING TO END UP WITH THE IRANIANS BEING EVEN MORE CAPABLE AND EVEN MORE LETHAL, AND AGAIN, THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING IS TO RUN A 24/7 , 365 DAY A YEAR TRILLION DOLLAR BOMBING CAMPAIGN OVER THE SKIES OF IRAN, THAT IS SOMETHING WE CAN'T AFFORD AS A COUNTRY AND SOMETHING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T WANT.

>> IT'S REALLY HARD TO LISTEN TO THIS, BECAUSE IT GOES AGAINST ALL THE THINGS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION TOLD US, THAT THE ISRAELIS TOLD US.

I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT YOU SAID AT THE BEGINNING.

I THINK YOU SAID THAT --AND TRUMP AND RUBIO HAD DIFFERENT THINGS TO SAY ABOUT WHO IS WAGGING THE DOG, SO TO SPEAK POINT IS THIS TRUMPET BEING ROLLED OR RUMBLED BY NETANYAHU, OR IS TRUMP GOING WILLINGLY ALONG WITH NETANYAHU?

THIS IS IN THE BEST ISRAELI INTEREST OR THE BEST AMERICAN INTEREST WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW?

BECAUSE WE ARE HEARING THAT SOME OF THE [ INAUDIBLE ], DELINEATED BY THE ADMINISTRATION, IS BASED NOT ON FACT, THEY DO NOT HAVE THE IRANIANS INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC MISSILES TO REACH THE U. S. , THEY HAVEN'T BEEN DEEMED TO START IN A NEW WAY THEIR NUCLEAR PROGRAM , WHICH TRUMP SAID THEY OBLITERATED IT IN THE SUMMER.

SO, THEY DO HAVE THESE REGIONAL BALLISTIC MISSILES.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT IN WHOSE INTEREST IS THIS?

>> WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT IN AMERICAN INTEREST, ESPECIALLY IF AT THE END OF THIS PROCESS, SOMEBODY EMERGES IN IRAN THAT IS EVEN WORSE THAN THE AYATOLLAH.

IT IS NOT IN OUR INTEREST THAT WE ARE EVACUATING U. S. CITIZENS RIGHT NOW FROM 14 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES WITHOUT A PLAN.

IT IS NOT IN OUR INTEREST THAT ULTIMATELY , EXTREMISM IS GOING TO GROW BECAUSE OF OUR DECISION TO TAKE OUT THE HOLY LEADER OF THE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MONTH OF RAMADAN.

IT IS NOT IN OUR INTEREST FOR PRICES TO GO UP AT THE GROCERY STORE AND THAT PUMPS BECAUSE OF THIS WAR.

THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT THIS THAT IS IN OUR INTEREST BUT I FRANKLY DON'T THINK IT IS IN THE INTEREST IN THE LONG RUN OF ISRAEL, EITHER.

THEY SHOULD BE WORKING ON MIDWIFE THING A PALESTINIAN STATE INTO EXISTENCE, THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THAT ISRAEL LIVES IN PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

CONSTANT WAR, CONSTANT PROVOCATION LEADING TO TENS OF THOUSANDS OF CIVILIANS DYING, AND GAZA, THE WEST BANK, AND IRAN, ULTIMATELY JUST STIRS UP A HORNETS NEST WHICH IS GOING TO BE A POTENTIAL PROBLEM FOR ISRAEL.

THIS IS IN NEITHER OF THESE COUNTRIES' INTERESTS.

OURS OR ISRAEL BUT I DON'T KNOW WHO LED WHO INTO WAR NOW.

THERE ARE DEFINITELY PEOPLE AROUND DONALD TRUMP WHO WANT THIS WAR.

MAYBE NETANYAHU PUSHED HIM INTO IT, MAYBE IT WAS TRYING TO DISTRACT FROM RISING PRICES AND HE IS PROBABLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BIGGEST CHILD SEX SCANDAL IN THE COUNTRY, I CAN'T SEE INSIDE THIS ROOM, I JUST KNOW THIS IS A REALLY BAD OUTCOME, WHOEVER PUSHED WHOEVER ELSE INTO IT .

>> THE EPSTEIN FILES AND THE ONGOING INVESTIGATIONS.

BUT LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE A MEMBER, A SENIOR MEMBER OF SENATE.

THE CONGRESS HAS A RESPONSIBILITY AND THE TOOLS TO ACTUALLY AUTHORIZE WAR OR NOT.

WHY HAVEN'T YOU DONE IT?

I KNOW THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME KIND OF BOAT ON THE WAR POWERS ACT, WHATEVER FORM THAT TAKES.

WHAT IS THE BEST OUTCOME OF THAT YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN DO TO ACTUALLY EXERT YOUR OWN RESPONSIBILITIES?

>> WELL, CONGRESS HAS TO HAVE A DEBATE ON AN AUTHORIZATION OF WAR.

I DON'T ACTUALLY THINK THAT THAT WOULD PASS.

I DON'T THINK TRUMP WOULD BE ABLE TO GET ENOUGH REPUBLICANS TO PROACTIVELY VOTE TO GO INTO AN OPEN-ENDED WAR WITH IRAN, BECAUSE AMERICAN PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT AND LEFT WOULD RISE UP AGAINST IT.

AND IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE LEADERS OF THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE, AND THEY ARE REPUBLICANS, TO BRING THAT DEBATE BEFORE THE SENATE.

IF THEY DON'T, OUR LEVERAGE AS DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE IS TO JUST SAY SIMPLY THIS, WE ARE NOT GOING TO VOTE TO PROCEED TO ANY OTHER LEGISLATION, WE ARE NOT GOING TO LET ANY OTHER BILL COME BEFORE THE SENATE UNTIL WE HAVE A DEBATE ON THE AUTHORIZATION OF MILITARY FORCE.

THAT WOULD POTENTIALLY END THIS WAR BECAUSE IT WOULD FAIL.

A WAR POWERS RESOLUTION, WHICH IS WHAT SENATOR KAINE HAS BROUGHT BEFORE THE SENATE, IS INSUFFICIENT.

I WILL VOTE FOR IT, I SUPPORTED SENATOR KAINE, BUT THE PRESUMPTION CANNOT BE ON THE OPPONENTS OF WAR, TO BRING A WAR POWERS RESOLUTION THAT SAYS THE PRESIDENT HAS TO STOP.

NO, THE PRESUMPTION IS ON THE PROPONENTS OF WAR, TO NOT START A WAR UNLESS THEY HAVE A PROACTIVE AUTHORIZATION FROM CONGRESS, SO WE SHOULDN'T PROCEED WITH BUSINESS AS USUAL IN THE SENATE UNTIL WE HAVE A DEBATE ON AN AUTHORIZATION.

>> AND FINALLY, GO BACK TO ONE OF THE WORDS YOU USED TO DESCRIBE THE ADMINISTRATION, ONE IS INCOMPETENT.

MY OWN QUESTION IS THAT THERE APPEARS TO BE A LOT OF SURPRISE WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION ABOUT YOUR AUNT'S RESPONSE.

EVEN THOUGH IRAN TELEGRAPHED UP AND DOWN FOR WEEKS THAT AMERICAN INTEREST IN THE REGION WOULD BE TARGETED.

AND SO INDEED, THEY HAVE BEEN.

ALLIES OF THE UNITED STATES HAVE BEEN TARGETED.

BUT ALSO, THE PANIC THAT I READ AS PANIC OF THE AMERICAN AUTHORITIES TELLING THEIR AMERICAN CITIZENS TO LEAVE THE REGION, BUT OH, WE WON'T HELP YOU, YOU CAN'T HELP YOU, YOU HAVE TO DO IT ON YOUR OWN, WAS TO BE A VERY FUNDAMENTAL SIGNIFIER.

AND THEN WE SEE THIS STATE DEPARTMENT HOTLINE AS OF YESTERDAY, I THINK IT HAS BEEN CHANGED NOW, BUT AS OF JUST A FEW HOURS OR A DAY AGO, THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE CALLING THE STATE DEPARTMENT HOTLINE WOULD HAVE HEARD: >> IF YOU ARE CALLING ABOUT THE CRISIS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, PLEASE PRESS ONE, IF NOT, PRESS TWO.

PLEASE DO NOT RELY ON THE U. S. GOVERNMENT FOR ASSISTED DEPARTURE OR EVACUATION AT THIS TIME, THERE ARE CURRENTLY NO UNITED STATES EVACUATION POINTS.

PLEASE CONTINUE TO CHECK THE EMBASSY'S WEBSITE FOR UPDATED INFORMATION IN THE EVENT OF ONGOING MILITARY ACTION.

>> WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU?

>> A AGAIN, I KNOW WE ARE USED TO COVERING ADMINISTRATIONS THAT MAKE MISTAKES THAT ARE BASICALLY COMPETENT, THE UNDERLYING STORY HERE IS A WHITE HOUSE AND THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE THAT HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING ON AN HOUR TO HOUR BASIS.

YOU HAVE CHILDREN, YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE MAGA TROLLS ONLINE HOLDING SIGNIFICANT POSITIONS IN THE AMERICAN NATIONAL SECURITY INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND SO, OF COURSE, THE DAY THAT THE IRANIAN BOMBS AND MISSILES START FALLING ON AMERICAN TARGETS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, THE HOTLINE SAYS DO NOT CALL US, WE HAVE NO PLANS TO HELP YOU, BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT 22-YEAR-OLDS WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF THIS BUSINESS.

I KNOW THAT IS HARD TO HEAR FOR AMERICANS, BUT THAT IS THE REALITY, AND APPARENTLY, THEY ARE NOW SCURRYING TO TRY TO GET SOME AMERICANS OUT, BUT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME, AS THEY FRANKLY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN AMERICANS OUT BEFORE THE BOMBING STARTED.

EVERYBODY KNEW WHAT WAS ABOUT TO HAPPEN, IT WASN'T LIKE THIS WAS A BIG SECRET.

CARRIER GROUPS WERE POISED TO STRIKE.

THEY COULD HAVE SPENT THE WEEK AHEAD OF THE STRIKES GETTING AMERICANS OUT OF HARM'S WAY.

NOW YOU HAVE AMERICAN CIVILIANS, NOT JUST AMERICAN SOLDIERS DYING BECAUSE OF THE GROSS INCOMPETENCE OF THIS ADMINISTRATION.

THAT SHOULD MAKE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY FURIOUS.

>> SENATOR MURPHY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> WE TURN NOW TO THE HAVOC RAINING DOWN ON AMERICA'S ALLIES IN THE GULF, THE U. S. HAS CLOSED ITS EMBASSY IS IN SAUDI ARABIA, KUWAIT, AND LEBANON AND IS TELLING AMERICANS TO LEAVE.

TELLING AMERICANS NOT TO RELY ON THE GOVERNMENT FOR ASSISTANCE.

THE STATE DEPARTMENT NOW SAYS THE U. S. IS COMMITTED TO HELPING.

MEANTIME, THE PRICE OF OIL AND GAS IS RISING.

QATAR'S BIGGEST GAS PRODUCER HAS DECIDED TO STOP PRODUCTION AND EXPORTS ARE EFFECTIVELY HALTED FOR NOW.

CHINA IS MORNING NOW, THE WAR IS THREATENING GLOBAL ENERGY SUPPLIES.

OVERNIGHT, SAUDI ARABIA INTERCEPTED AND DESTROYED TWO CRUISE MISSILES, AS WELL AS NINE DRONES, THAT IS ACCORDING TO THE STATE MEDIA.

THE CIA STATION WAS ALSO HIT THIS WEEK AND THE U. S. EMBASSY WAS STRUCK BY TWO SUSPECTED IRANIAN DRONES.

CONDEMNED TEHRAN'S FLAGRANT BEHAVIOR AND SAYS IT RESERVES THE OPTION TO RESPOND.

SAUDI ARABIA'S FORMER INTELLIGENCE CHIEF AND A FORMER AMBASSADOR TO WASHINGTON AND LONDON AND HE IS JOINING US NOW.

PRINCE TURKEY, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

WE ALWAYS SEEK YOUR WISDOM AND YOUR KNOWLEDGE, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL.

SO, LET ME ASK YOU WHAT YOU THINK SAUDI ARABIA IS GOING TO DO AND WHY YOU THINK IRAN IS TARGETING SAUDI ARABIA AND OTHER GULF STATES?

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, IT IS ALWAYS GOOD TO BE BACK WITH YOU.

I WATCHED THE FIRST SECTION OF YOUR SHOW AND IT WAS VERY LIMITED ON THE AMERICAN SIDE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING.

THE KINGDOM HAS PLAINLY STATED ITS REJECTION OF ALL OF THE IRANIAN ACTIVITY THAT IS TAKING PLACE IN THE AREA.

NOT ONLY AGAINST SAUDI ARABIA, BUT AGAINST THE WHOLE GULF STATES AND EVEN FARTHER.

AS YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR FORMER SECTION OF THE EVENT, EVEN TURKEY HAS BEEN --AT LEAST A MISSILE WENT INTO ITS AIRSPACE, SO THE DANGERS OF EXPANDING AND WIDENING THE CONFLICT EXIST AT THE MOMENT.

AND THERE HAS TO BE A STOP TO IT.

UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T THINK THAT THE BOMBING CAMPAIGN THAT THE AMERICANS AND THE ISRAELIS HAVE BEGUN IS GOING TO PUT A STOP TO THAT.

BUT ALL THE INFORMATION I HAVE, WHICH I GLEANED FROM PUBLISHED ACCOUNTS AND STATEMENTS FROM OFFICIALS , THAT THE IRANIANS ARE PRETTY WELL-STOCKED WITH MISSILES AND DRONES AND HAVE BEEN PREPARING FOR THIS KIND OF EVENTUALITY , NOT ONLY BY THE TIME OF THE LAST CONFLICT IN JUNE, BUT EVEN FROM BEFORE THAT, SO WE ARE IN FOR A LONG HAUL, IF YOU LIKE, NOT JUST ON THE AMERICAN SIDE, BUT ALSO ON THE IRANIAN SIDE.

ONE THING I MUST MAKE CLEAR, MS.

AMANPOUR, IS THAT HERE IN THE AREA, WE ARE FACING TWO AGENDAS.

BOTH OF THEM APOCALYPTIC.

ONE FROM ISRAEL, WHICH IS THE GREATER ISRAEL AGENDA, THIS HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT BY NETANYAHU AND OTHER ISRAELI OFFICIALS.

ISRAEL WANTS TO EXPAND FROM THE NILE RIVER TO [ INAUDIBLE ].

AND THE OTHER ONE, OF COURSE, IS THE IRANIAN AGENDA, WHICH IS THE RETURN OF THE [ INAUDIBLE ], WHO DISAPPEARED SOMETHING LIKE SEVEN OR EIGHT CENTURIES AGO, AND HE WOULD COME BACK AND MAKE THE WORLD A PEACEFUL PLACE AND PREPARE FOR THE COMING OF CHRIST.

THE THIRD AGENDA THAT IS AFFECTING US, AND WHICH HAS IMPACT IN THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER PLACES IS THE CHRISTIAN ZIONIST AGENDA, WHICH WANTS TO SEE A RETURN OF THE MESSIAH, AND THE CITIZENS OF ISRAEL IN THEIR THEOLOGY AND TERMINOLOGY, IT IS NECESSARY FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.

SO, IF YOU LIKE, WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THESE THREE AGENDAS THAT THEY ARE OPERATING EXPAND THEIR VISION ONTO THE REST OF US, AND THE KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA, OF COURSE, WORKS WITH ITS GULF ALLIES TO TRY TO PUT A STOP TO ALL OF THIS BLOODSHED AND CARNAGE THAT IS TAKING PLACE.

>> I JUST WANT TO PICK UP ON WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THE APOCALYPTIC VISIONS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, FROM THE ISRAELI PERSPECTIVE, FROM THE IRANIAN PERSPECTIVE, AND FROM THE AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE, AND IN FACT THIS WEEK, THERE HAVE BEEN REPORTS AND COMPLAINTS BY MANY AMERICAN OFFICERS AND SOLDIERS THROUGH THEIR CHAIN OF COMMAND ABOUT BEING TOLD THAT U. S. TROOPS ' WAR ON IRAN IS PART OF ARMAGEDDON, SO THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD IN SOME OF THEIR UNITS AND IN SOME OF THEIR BASES BY THEIR COMMANDING OFFICERS, SO THAT GOES TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID, BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS, THE WASHINGTON POST HAS REPORTED THAT YOUR CROWN PRINCE WAS PRIVATELY URGING TRUMP TO ACTUALLY ATTACK IRAN.

NOW, SAUDI ARABIA DENIES THIS, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK?

IT IS NO LOVE LOST BETWEEN IRAN AND SAUDI ARABIA.

IT IS CLEAR THAT EVERYBODY INCLUDING GULF STATES, INCLUDING THE U. S. AND ISRAEL, I THOUGHT THAT IRAN HAD BEEN PRETTY FATALLY WOUNDED AND CRIPPLED BY ALL THE ACTIVITY AGAINST IT OVER THE LAST YEAR.

DO YOU THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A MESSAGE FROM MBS TO GO AHEAD AND DO THIS?

>> I DOUBT IT VERY MUCH.

YOU KNOW, THE KINGDOM'S LEADERSHIP HAS CONSISTENTLY ALWAYS HELD TO THEIR PUBLIC POSITIONS IN PRIVATE SESSIONS WITH OTHER OFFICIALS, INCLUDING WITH MR.

TRUMP, AND WHEN THE CROWN PRINCE WAS IN WASHINGTON, I'M SURE THEY DISCUSSED ALL THESE ISSUES AND HE LAID THINGS BEAR ON THAT ISSUE.

AT THAT TIME, OF COURSE, THE CONFLICT IN IRAN HAD NOT YET STARTED, BUT DEFINITELY, [ INAUDIBLE ] IN THE DISCUSSIONS.

AND YOU KNOW, AMERICAN MEDIA SEEMS TO CONTRADICT ITSELF.

I THINK A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, THERE WERE REPORTS THAT SAUDI ARABIA WAS ALIGNING ITSELF WITH IRAN AGAINST ISRAEL.

AND NOW WE SEE THEY ARE SAYING SAUDI ARABIA IS URGING AMERICA TO BOMB IRAN, SO I THINK THERE IS DISINFORMATION BEING SPREAD , UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK, BY ISRAELI SPOKESPEOPLE OR OFFICIALS , IN ORDER TO SHOW THAT IT IS NOT JUST ISRAEL THAT HAS BEEN URGING AMERICA TO TAKE ACTION AGAINST IRAN.

>> THE WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT WHAT APPEARS TO BE SOME SURPRISE IN THE REGION, MAYBE IN SAUDI ARABIA, IN QATAR, SOME ANGER ABOUT THE RESPONSE BY IRAN.

THIS IS WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID YESTERDAY, TAKE A LISTEN.

>> AMAZINGLY, THEY ARE HITTING COUNTRIES THAT WERE, YOU KNOW, LET'S CALL THEM NEUTRAL.

THEY LIVED TOGETHER FOR A LONG TIME, THEY --I THINK THEY WERE SURPRISED, I WAS SURPRISED.

AND NOW THOSE COUNTRIES ARE ALL FIGHTING AGAINST HIM AND FIGHTING STRONGLY AGAINST THEM.

>> FROM AN INTELLIGENCE POINT OF VIEW, I MEAN, IRAN DID BASICALLY SAY THAT IT WAS GOING TO HIT OUT AT THESE PLACES THAT HOST AMERICAN BASES AND HOLD THEM RESPONSIBLE AS WELL.

ARE YOU SURPRISED AT THE EXTENT OF IRAN'S RETALIATION?

>> WELL, I AM SURPRISED AT THE PRESIDENT'S SURPRISE.

RESPECTFULLY, I WOULD RECALL THAT THE CROWN PRINCE AND OTHER GULF LEADERS HAVE BEEN ENCOURAGING AMERICA NOT TO UNDERTAKE MILITARY ACTION AGAINST IRAN, BECAUSE ALL OF US BELIEVE THAT THAT ACTION WILL NOT BE MADE CONFINED TO IRAN.

THAT IRAN WILL RETALIATE AGAINST AMERICAN PRESENCE IN THE AREA, WHICH IS PRESENT IN ALL OF THE GULF STATES, AND AS FAR AWAY AS TURKEY APPARENTLY, SO, IF HE WAS SURPRISED, I DON'T THINK SAUDI OR OTHER GULF LEADERS WERE SURPRISED, THEY HAVE BEEN WARNING , THE AMERICANS, NOT TO UNDERTAKE MILITARY ACTION AND SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

>> YOU KNOW, FOR A LONG TIME, SAUDI LEADERS AND OTHER ARAB LEADERS IN THE GULF STATES HAVE TOLD THEIR PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE HOSTING AMERICAN BASES BECAUSE IT IS IN YOUR INTEREST, BECAUSE IT WILL PROTECT YOU AS WELL.

NOW YOU ARE BEING ATTACKED AS IRAN SIGNALED YOU WOULD BE, AND I DON'T SEE MUCH DEFENSE COMING TO YOU ALL.

YES, DEFENSE TO ISRAEL, BUT YOU FEEL YOU'RE BEING DEFENDED?

IS HOSTING AMERICAN BASES A LONG-TERM, VIABLE SITUATION ANYMORE, DO YOU THINK?

CAN YOU ALL TRUST AMERICA AND ITS DEFENSIVE POSTURE FOR YOU?

>> WELL, THAT'S WHY I CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT I SEE IS HAPPENING IN SAUDI ARABIA.

THAT'S WHY SAUDI ARABIA HAS BEEN TRYING TO BUTTRESS AND EXPAND ITS MILITARY CAPABILITIES IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND ITSELF, AND DEVELOPING A MILITARY INDUSTRY IN THE KINGDOM, SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD LIKE AMERICA OR EUROPE TO PURCHASE WEAPONS AND SO ON, BUT WE ALSO WORK WITH OUR GULF STATES PARTNERS IN ORDER TO TRY TO FORM SOME KIND OF COMMON COMMAND, AND THAT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME COMING, AND I'M SURE THE PRESENT SITUATION WILL HAVE HASTENED THE FORMATION OF SOME KIND OF PAN GOLF DEFENSE COMMAND TO PROTECT THE GULF STATES.

THE KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA, YOU KNOW, IN THE LAST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BACK IN 2019, IF YOU REMEMBER, WE WERE BOMBED BY IRANIAN MISSILES AT THAT TIME.

AND MR.

TRUMP AT THE TIME DID NOT OFFER ANY SUPPORT AT THAT TIME.

SO, IT IS NO SURPRISE FOR THE KINGDOM THAT HE IS NOT COMING TO OUR HELP, IF YOU LIKE, AS FAR AS I CAN SEE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING ON OFFICIAL CIRCUITS, BUT DEFINITELY, THE WHOLE ISSUE OF MORE BLOODSHED AND MORE DESTRUCTION IS AN AFTERMATH TO THE KINGDOM.

THE KINGDOM IS NOT A COURSE OF SOCIAL, AND YOU KNOW, INDUSTRIAL, AND COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT.

WE WANT TO CONTINUE ON THAT ROUTE INSTEAD OF HAVING MILITARY CONFLICTS IN THE AREA.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE LET'S FACE IT, SAUDI ARABIA IS THE GUARDIAN OF THE SUNNI FAITH, CALLED THE GUARDIAN OF THE TWO HOLY MOSQUES.

IRAN IS PRETTY MUCH THE GUARDIAN OF THE SHIA FAITH.

THERE IS A CLASH BETWEEN YOU TWO.

I DO BELIEVE THAT THE ASSASSINATION OF THE SO-CALLED LEADER CAN COLLAPSE THE REGIME, COLLAPSE THE [ INAUDIBLE ], DO YOU BELIEVE IT CAN EVENTUALLY LEAD TO THE UPRISING OF PEOPLE IN IRAN?

BECAUSE TRUMP HAS MOVED BACK FROM REGIME CHANGE.

>> WELL, I WOULD PUT IT ANOTHER WAY.

YOU KNOW, THE KINGDOM HAS SHIA CITIZENS AS WELL AS SUNNI CITIZENS.

IRAN ITSELF HAS SUNNI CITIZENS AS WELL AS SHIA CITIZENS, SO I WOULD NOT PUT IT SO STARKLY AS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SUNNI AND SHIA.

BUT DEFINITELY, I DON'T THINK THAT THE SYSTEM IN IRAN WILL COLLAPSE ANYTIME SOON.

AS I SAID, THE IRANIAN LEADERSHIP HAS BEEN PREPARING FOR AN EVENTUALITY LIKE THIS, BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY HAVE CONTINUED TO HEAR FROM MR.

NETANYAHU IN THE PAST 40 YEARS.

HE HAS BEEN CALLING FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF IRAN, AND SO, THE IRANIANS OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, TOOK NOTE OF THAT, AND HAVE BEEN PREPARING THEMSELVES FOR SUCH AN EVENTUALITY.

AND AS WE SEE IN THE NEWS ALREADY, THEY ARE IN THE PROCESS OF ELECTING A NEW SO- CALLED LEADER TO SUCCEED .

THEY HAVE ALREADY SET UP AN INTERIM LEADERSHIP OF THREE PERSONALITIES FROM LEADERSHIP.

THE ONLY WAY THE SYSTEM WILL GO, I THINK, IT WILL BE FOR THE IRANIAN PEOPLE.

BECAUSE IT IS THEY IN THE END WILL DECIDE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THEIR COUNTRY.

AND YOU KNOW, MR.

MURPHY MENTIONED THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SUPPORT FOR THE UPRISING THAT TOOK PLACE, AND THEN HE BACKED AWAY.

AND THEN WHICH I FOUND VERY STARTLING OF COURSE, THAT MR.

MURPHY WAS SAYING MAYBE THEY SHOULD PUT TROOPS ON THE GROUND TO HELP THE UPRISING AGAINST THE AYATOLLAH.

EVEN THERE, THERE IS CONFUSION.

>> YEAH, YEAH, LOOK.

HE DIDN'T SAY PUT THEM, HE SAID THAT'S THE ONLY WAY IT COULD BECAUSE IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED FROM THE AIR.

I WANT TO ASK YOU A FINAL AND QUICK QUESTION.

PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT ISRAEL STANDS TO BE THE BIGGEST WINNER OUT OF ALL OF THIS.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE CASE, AND YOU THINK THAT IT MAKES NORMALIZATION BETWEEN ISRAEL AND SAUDI ARABIA ANY CLOSER?

>> WELL, FORGET ABOUT NORMALIZATION.

LET ALONE WHAT ISRAEL IS DOING IN GAZA AND THE WEST BANK, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NETANYAHU'S WAR.

YOU TALKED ABOUT THE DOG AND THE TAIL, WHO IS WAGGING WHO ?

IT IS DEFINITELY MR.

NETANYAHU HAS MADE SEVEN TRIPS TO AMERICA, AND OBVIOUSLY IS SOMEHOW CONVINCED THE PRESIDENT TO SUPPORT HIS VIEWS.

AND SO, NETANYAHU HAS BEEN TRYING TO DO THIS IN ORDER TO GET AWAY FROM THE MURKY AND TERRIBLE CONDUCT THAT HE LED ISRAEL INTO , NOT JUST IN GAZA, BUT IN THE WEST BANK AND INTERNALLY.

HE WANTS TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION OF ISRAEL TO ALLOW HIM TO UNDERTAKE WHATEVER HE WANTS TO DO WITHOUT CHECK, SO THAT IS WHY HE HAS BEEN PUSHING FOR THIS WAR, TO DRIVE [ INAUDIBLE ] AWAY FROM WHAT IS HAPPENING ON THE GROUND IN PALESTINE, AND AS I SAID, THERE IS THAT AGENDA OF A GREATER ISRAEL.

FROM THE NILE TO THE EUPHRATES, SO YOU CAN IMAGINE WHAT THAT ENTAILS.

>> ALL RIGHT, ALWAYS REALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> REPS ALSO OPENING UP BETWEEN WASHINGTON AND ITS EUROPEAN ALLIES, MANY OF WHOM OPPOSE THE UNITED STATES CONTINUING OFFENSIVE OPERATIONS IN IRAN.

FOREIGN-POLICY ADVISER TO BLAIR, HE ALSO SERVED AS UK AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS AND HAS HAD OF THE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY.

I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE APPLICATIONS OF TRUMP'S [ INAUDIBLE ] WITH EUROPE AND THE APPARENT LACK OF PLANNING BEYOND MILITARY STRIKES.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM AT THIS REALLY CRITICAL TIME.

I WANT TO ASK YOU FIRST FROM THE BRITISH PERSPECTIVE, TRUMP HAS NOW OPENLY CRITICIZED IN FRONT OF ANOTHER EUROPEAN LEADER, CHANCELLOR MERTZ, BRITAIN, SAYING WE ARE NOT DEALING WITH WINSTON CHURCHILL, HE IS VERY ANGRY THAT THE PRIME MINISTER DIDN'T ALLOW UK BASES TO BE USED IN THOSE FIRST STRIKES BY AMERICANS, CAN I JUST PLAY WHAT TRUMP SAID?

>> IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A MUCH MORE CONVENIENT LANDING THERE AS OPPOSED TO FLYING MANY EXTRA HOURS, SO WE ARE VERY SURPRISED.

THIS IS NOT WINSTON CHURCHILL THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH.

>> I MEAN, YOU KNOW, DAGGER TO THE HEART, INVOKING THE GREAT WARTIME LEADER.

OBVIOUSLY THEN, THE PRIME MINISTER DID CHANGE HIS POSITION.

SO, WHY DID HE CHANGE THE POSITION AND DO YOU THINK IT IS LEGITIMATE TO ALLOW BASES TO BE USED, AND CAN BRITAIN RECOVER, CAN THIS PRIME MINISTER RECOVERED FROM THAT ATTACK?

>> QUITE FRANKLY, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT DEALING WITH WINSTON CHURCHILL AND [ INAUDIBLE ] IS NOT DEALING WITH FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT.

YOU HAVE TWO VERY DIFFERENT CHARACTERS IN THE LEADERSHIP POSITIONS.

I THINK HE TOOK A CAREFUL LOOK AT THE PLANS, TO THE EXTENT THAT HE AND THE BRITISH OFFICIALS UNDERSTOOD THEM AND CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT UNDER BRITISH LAW, THERE WAS NO BASIS FOR USING OUR ASSETS IN SUPPORT OF THIS.

HE HAS TAKEN A SLIGHTLY COMPLICATED DECISION THAT WE WOULD NOT SUPPORT OFFENSIVE ACTION, AN ATTACK ON IRAN.

AS SOON AS IRAN STARTED ATTACKING OUR FRIENDS AND ALLIES IN THE GULF, THEN WE HAD DEFENSE OBLIGATIONS TO THOSE COUNTRIES, AND OF COURSE IRAN ALSO ATTACKED THE BRITISH BASE IN CYPRUS, SO IN PURELY DEFENSIVE TERMS, HE CHANGED HIS APPROACH IN TERMS OF ALLOWING U. S. FORCES, AND UK FORCES TO OPERATE IN A DEFENSIVE FASHION.

>> OKAY, SO, DO YOU THINK THAT STANDS AND IT IS A SOLID POSITION, AND AGAIN, CAN THIS PRIME MINISTER, WHO HAS DONE HIS UTMOST AND HIS BEST, BENT OVER BACKWARDS TO ACCOMMODATE THE VERY NEAR CARRYALL PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, AND HAS SORT OF KIND OF DONE PRETTY WELL, DO YOU THINK THIS IS A RUPTURE NOW OR WILL THEY GET OVER IT?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK THEY WILL GET OVER IT.

I HAVE HEARD USUALLY IN PRIVATE SHARP DIFFERENCES IN VIEWS IN THE PAST BETWEEN PRESIDENTS AND PRIME MINISTERS.

I DO THINK THIS IS A MAJOR ISSUE.

AND FRANKLY, AS THE AMERICANS HAVE DEMONSTRATED, HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY NEED ACCESS TO UK BASES, IT WAS JUST A CONVENIENCE FOR THEM.

STARMER FACES POLITICAL CHALLENGES FOR THE PARTY.

HE ALSO IS A FIRM BELIEVER IN HIS NATIONAL LAW.

YOU CAN QUESTION WHETHER THAT IS A SENSIBLE THING TO ELEVATE INTERNATIONAL LAW TO SUCH A HIGH STATUS, BUT THAT IS NONETHELESS HIS POSITION, HIS PARTY'S POSITION.

AND LOOK UP THE FALLOUT AS IT AFFECTED PRIME MINISTER BLAIR AFTER THE 2003 IRAQ WAR.

>> YOU ARE IF YOU DO, YOU'RE IF YOU DON'T, SO YOU JUST ADDRESS THAT, THE FALLOUT IS TERRIBLE, BRITAIN IS ALMOST STILL NOT RECOVERED FROM IT.

PRIME MINISTER BLAIR'S REPUTATION IS NOT RECOVERED FROM GOING WILLINGLY WITH THE UNITED STATES, AND VERY INTERESTING WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT INTERNATIONAL LAW.

I'M QUITE PUZZLED HERE --A LOT OF OFFICIALS LIKE YOURSELF, SENIOR JURISTS, SPECIFICALLY THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION , SAY THERE IS NO INTERNATIONAL LAW.

>> I DIDN'T SAY THAT, CHRISTIANE.

>> HE SAID THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH ELEVATING INTERNATIONAL LAW TO THIS EXTENT.

>> INTERNATIONAL LAW IS NOT THE SAME AS DOMESTIC LAW, IT IS NOT THE SAME AS THE RULE OF LAW AT HOME.

INTERNATIONAL LAW IS A CONVENTION BETWEEN CONSENTING STATES.

SO, IF YOU HAVE AN AGREEMENT, THIS IS HOW THINGS WILL LURK -- WORK, YOU CONFIRM THAT IS INTERNATIONAL LAW, BUT I THINK IT IS WRONG TO THINK OF IT AS AN INTEGRAL PART OF RULE AND LOT WITH THE NATIONS.

>> PUTIN COULD SAY, YOU'RE TELLING ME I AM BREAKING INTERNATIONAL LAW BY INVADING UKRAINE?

>> NO, HE SAID HE ISN'T BREAKING INTERNATIONAL LAW BY INVADING UKRAINE.

BREAKING ALL THE PRINCIPLES OF THE U. N. CHARTER ABOUT TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY, ABOUT SOVEREIGNTY, AND NONINTERFERENCE.

AND OF COURSE, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS ATTACK THAT THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL HAS LAUNCHED AGAINST IRAN AS IT DOES SEEM TO PUT THE AMERICANS ON THE SAME BASIS [ INAUDIBLE ].

YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE THERE, AND I WOULD DO SO, TOO, BUT IT CERTAINLY PLEASES PUTIN THAT IT'S NOT ONLY --HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE INVADING A NEIGHBORING COUNTRY, FOREIGN COUNTRY.

>> DO YOU THINK, BEFORE I GO BACK TO THE ISSUE OF THIS WAR AND IRAN, PUTIN COULD THINK AT THE BEGINNING, I WANTED TO DECAPITATE ZELENSKYY, I WANTED TO DECAPITATE THE LEADER, THAT WAS A STATED RUSSIAN GOAL, NOW I CAN, TRUMP HAS GIVEN ME.

PERMISSION.

>> I THINK THIS IS A WORRY FOR A LOT OF COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, THAT ABDUCTING A PRESIDENT, DECAPITATING LEADERSHIP IN ANOTHER COUNTRY SEEMS TO BE LEGITIMIZED BY THE UNITED STATES.

I THINK TRUMP IS PROBABLY THE FIRST PRESIDENT TO THINK IN THOSE TERMS.

IT WAS AN ATTEMPT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE IRAQ WAR IN 2003 TO ASSASSINATE SADDAM HUSSEIN, BUT FAILED WHEN IT HAPPENED, BUT THAT WAS PART OF THE WAR PLAN.

YOU COULD PERHAPS JUSTIFY IT IN THAT SENSE, BUT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

BUT I DO THINK IT IS A DANGEROUS PATH TO GO DOWN WHERE YOU ARE ATTACKING COUNTRIES AND ATTACKING THEIR LEADERSHIP.

I MEAN, WE HAVEN'T --I THINK IT MAKES OUR OWN LEADERS VULNERABLE.

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN A TARGET OF ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS BEFORE, MAYBE OTHERS WILL TRY IT, AND IT'S NOT A TERRIBLY GOOD POSITION FOR THE UNITED STATES TO BE AN POINT >> CAN I ASK YOU TO DESCRIBE WHAT IS THE ROLLING RATIONALES FOR THIS WAR AND THE ROLLING INCONSISTENCIES ALL MEMBERS OF THE ADMINISTRATION, THE SENIOR MEMBERS FROM THE PRESIDENT ON DOWN, TO WHAT MIGHT BE THE EXIT STRATEGY OR ANY STRATEGY?

>> WELL, THE FIRST THING TO SAY, CHRISTIANE, IS THIS IS AN UNNECESSARY WAR.

IT WAS NOT REQUIRED BECAUSE IT WAS NOT AS IF IT WAS TO PREEMPT AN IMMINENT THREAT AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OR EVEN AGAINST ISRAEL.

THE RATIONALE, TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE IS ONE, IS THAT IT SECURES ISRAEL FOR DECADES TO COME, THAT'S WHAT THE ISRAELIS THINK, AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE END OF THIS ISLAMIC PUBLIC IN IRAN, AND THEY THINK THEY WILL BE MUCH SAFER AS A RESULT THEY MIGHT BE RIGHT, BUT THIS WILL COME AT A COST.

THE VERY BEST OUTCOME YOU CAN EXPECT FROM THE CURRENT CONFLICT IS THAT A SUCCESSOR LEADERSHIP COMES IN AND BEHAVED DIFFERENTLY FROM ITS PREDECESSORS, NOW THAT IS WHAT SOME IN AMERICA ARE CALLING THE VENEZUELA OPTION.

NOT THAT I THINK IT WOULD BE EASY TO FIND A DELCY RODRIGUEZ IN IRAN, A DEEPLY IDEOLOGICAL COUNTRY, REGIME.

I THINK JUST AS DANGEROUS IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE REGIME MIGHT CORRODE OR COLLAPSE AND LOSE CONTROL IN PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, AND THEN YOU CAN HAVE A SITUATION LIKE THE ONE WE FACED IN SYRIA FOR THE LAST YEAR OR SO, WHERE THE COUNTRY FRAGMENTS INTO SEVERAL DIFFERENT PARKS, AND LOCAL ADMINISTRATIONS [ INAUDIBLE ] ON AN ETHNIC BASIS.

THERE HAVE BEEN REPORTS TODAY OF SOME ACTIVITY IN THE KURDISH AREAS WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS YET.

ISRAELIS, I THINK, STRUCK SOME IRANIAN POSITIONS IN IRANIAN KURDISTAN IN ORDER TO PERHAPS PROVOKE AN INSURGENCY, SOME UNREST IN THE KURDISH AREA.

>> OKAY, SO CNN HAS BEEN REPORTING THAT THE CIA MAYBE WORKING TO ARM THE KURDISH GROUPS WITH THE AIM OF FOMENTING SUCH AN THE UPRISING, PUT ADDITIONAL PRESSURE ON THE IRANIAN REGIME, CREATE A BUFFER ZONE, YOU KNOW, ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

FROM AN INTELLIGENCE PERSPECTIVE, FROM A FOREIGN POLICY PERSPECTIVE, FROM A GEOSTRATEGIC PERSPECTIVE, IS IT IN ANYBODY'S INTEREST?

>> IT IS A DANGEROUS ROAD TO GO DOWN BUT YOU SAY WHOSE INTEREST MIGHT IT BE IN?

I THINK THE KURDS THEMSELVES IN IRAN WOULD PROBABLY FEEL MORE FREE IF THEY WERE NOT ORDERED ABOUT AND TOLD WHAT LANGUAGE THEY CAN SPEAK, WHAT FLAGS THEY CAN FLY BY TEHRAN.

THERE IS A PARALLEL HERE WITH THE KURDS IN IRAQ AFTER THE 1991 WAR WHEN IRAQIS DID HAVE AN AREA, WHICH WAS A SAFE HAVEN.

>> THAT IS ONLY AFTER THE PRESIDENT THEN, GEORGE H. W. BUSH, I WAS THERE, TOLD THEM TO RISE UP, AND THE SHIITES, AND THEY GOT SLAUGHTERED AS THE AMERICANS DIDN'T COME AND HELP.

THEN THEY SPENT 20 YEARS GIVING THEM A NO FLY ZONE, WHICH WAS GREAT, BUT DO YOU THINK TRUMP IS PREPARED TO GIVE THE KURDS OF IRAN A 20 YEAR NO FLY ZONE?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK HE IS.

IT HAS BEEN UNWISE OF TRUMP TO CALL ON THE IRANIAN PEOPLE TO RISE UP, AS IT WAS UNWISE ON GEORGE H. W. BUSH TO CALL ON THE IRAQI PEOPLE TO RISE UP IN 1991.

JUST GETTING BACK TO YOUR POINT ABOUT FRAGMENTATION, IF THE COUNTRY DISSOLVES INTO COMPONENT PARTS, IT WOULD BE BASICALLY A FAILED STATE, AN UNGOVERNED STATE, AND WE HAVE KNOWN FROM SORT OF THE LAST 40 YEARS WHAT HAPPENS IN FAILED STATES, IT BECOMES A CENTER FOR TERRORISM, FOR SMUGGLING, FOR GUNRUNNING, FOR DRUGS, FOR CRIMINALITY OF ALL SORTS, AND IT DOES POSE A THREAT TO OTHER COUNTRIES.

I THINK IT IS IN AMERICA'S INTEREST AND IT IS CERTAINLY AN INTEREST OF EUROPE THAT THIS DEEPLY UNPLEASANT REGIME IN TEHRAN SHOULD NONETHELESS BE REPLACED BY A REGIME WHICH STILL HAS AUTHORITY OVER THE COUNTRY, THAT YOU CAN HOLD IT TO ACCOUNT.

YES, WE WANT TO CHANGE IRAN'S BEHAVIOR, BUT IF YOU JUST DISMANTLE THE REGIME COMPLETELY, YOU COULD END UP WITH THE SORT OF CHAOS WE HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH IN AFGHANISTAN NEXT DOOR TO IRAN OR INDEED IN LEBANON AND LIBYA AND MORE RECENTLY IN SYRIA.

NOW, I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE HERE BETWEEN AMERICAN INTERESTS AND ISRAELI INTEREST.

AMERICANS DO NEED TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH A COUNTRY THE SIZE OF IRAN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

I THINK THE ISRAELIS ARE MORE WILLING TO TAKE A RISK HERE.

THEY LIVE NEXT TO A FAILED STATE IN LEBANON.

LAST YEAR, THEY HAD CLOSE TO A FRAGMENTED STATE IN SYRIA, AND THEY HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THAT FRAGMENTATION.

I THINK THE ISRAELIS WILL BE QUITE HAPPY TO SEE A COLLAPSE OF THE SYSTEM IN IRAN AND LET OTHER PEOPLE DEAL WITH IT.

I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT OUR FRIENDS IN THE GULF, THE SAUDIS, THE QATARI'S, THE TURKS, THE PAKISTANIS ARE GOING TO BE APPALLED BY THAT, AND THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENS WHEN A FAILED STATE EMERGES IS THAT AUTHORITY COLLAPSES AND THE PEOPLE FLEE.

NOW, THERE ARE 19 MILLION PEOPLE IN IRAN, HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE GOING TO FLEE TO TURKEY AND TRY TO MAKE THEIR WAY TO EUROPE?

HOW MANY MILLION REFUGEES IS THE UNITED STATES PREPARED TO ACCEPT AS A CONSEQUENCE TO THIS WAR?

THOSE ARE UNANSWERED QUESTIONS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE NOT LOOKING DOWN THAT ROAD.

NOW, IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN, THERE IS A RISK OF THIS HAPPENING, THE VERY BEST YOU CAN EXPECT IS A VENEZUELA TYPE OUTCOME, BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER MORE DANGEROUS OUTCOMES COMING FROM THIS POINT >> BUT I WANTED TO ASK YOU BECAUSE THE LATEST IS THAT NATO IS NOW POTENTIALLY IMPLICATED OR DRAWN IN.

THE MISSILE THAT WAS FILED TOWARDS TURKEY, A NATO MEMBER, AND NATO DEFENSE FORCES BROUGHT IT DOWN BEFORE IT COULD ENTER TURKISH SPACE.

SOME DEBRIS DID FALL ON TURKISH TERRITORY.

ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THAT?

ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT EVER- EXPANDING CIRCLES OF THIS CONFLICT?

>> I THINK THIS CONFLICT HAS ALREADY EXPANDED BEYOND WHAT MOST PEOPLE EXPECTED.

I THINK THE SCALE OF THE IRANIAN RESPONSE HAS BEEN GREATER THAN MANY ANTICIPATED.

PERHAPS WRONGLY.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU BECAUSE THEY SAID IT LOUD AND CLEAR.

>> AND THEY WANT THE COUNTRIES UP AND DOWN THE GULF THAT IF YOU GET INVOLVED IN THIS, WE ARE GOING TO HIT YOU.

AND YOU CAN SEE THE RATIONALE FROM THE IRANIAN POINT OF VIEW, THEY WANT TO BUILD UP AS MUCH PRESSURE AS THEY CAN THROUGH AMERICA'S FRIENDS IN THE GULF, THROUGH ENERGY MARKETS AND SO ON, IN ORDER TO GET HIM TO CALL AN END TO THIS ASSAULT ON THEIR COUNTRY AND ON THEIR REGIME.

NOW, I DON'T HAVE ANY SYMPATHY WITH THE IRANIAN REGIME WHATSOEVER, I THINK IT IS A VILE AND VICIOUS REGIME, BUT I JUST THINK THE EXPERIENCE IN THE LAST 25 YEARS, WHETHER IT IS ON OUR SIDE IN A ROCK AND AFGHANISTAN AND LIBYA, WHETHER IT IS LIKE RUSSIA AND UKRAINE, WHEN YOU START A CONFLICT LIKE THIS, YOU MAY THINK IT IS ONLY GOING TO LAST FOUR OR FIVE DAYS OR FOUR OR FIVE WEEKS, BUT HAS A HABIT OF THE REVERBERATIONS SPREADING MUCH MORE WIDELY, AND THERE IS A REAL RISK IN THIS CASE OF THAT HAPPENING.

I THINK IN SOME WAYS, UNITED STATES AND THE CONFUSION BETWEEN VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE ADMINISTRATION, HAS ROAD BACK ON ITS OBJECTIVES.

>> THEY HAVE COALESCED AROUND A DIFFERENT OBJECTIVE.

IT'S NOT THE OBJECTIVE WE WERE TOLD.

>> THE TALK ABOUT REGIME CHANGE IS GONE.

>> YOU SAY LOOSE TALK, IT WAS AN ACTUAL WAR AIM.

PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID IT MANY TIMES, NETANYAHU SAID IT MANY TIMES, THEY SAID IT, THAT WAS A WAR AIM.

>> I SAY LOOSE TALK BECAUSE IT WAS LOOSELY SAID WITH NO WILLINGNESS TO FOLLOW IT UP.

THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD INTRODUCE REGIME CHANGE IN IRAN IS BY PUTTING GROUND TROOPS IN, AND I CERTAINLY HOPE THE UNITED STATES DOESN'T FOLLOW ITS INITIAL MISTAKE OF WATCHING THIS WAR WITH THE SECOND MISTAKE OF PUTTING GROUND -- >> IF YOU DO THINK IT'S A MISTAKE, WHICH MANY DO, MANY AGREE WITH YOU, CERTAINLY A WAR OF CHOICE, PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID THEY WERE GOING TO HIT US FIRST, NO EVIDENCE OF THAT, OH, THEY RECONSTITUTED THEIR NUCLEAR PROGRAM, NO EVIDENCE OF THAT.

THEY HAVE BALLISTIC MISSILES THAT CAN REACH US, THEY DON'T.

SO, LOTS OF FLIMSINESS DESPITE THE REGIME AGAINST ITS OWN PEOPLE.

SO, HOW DO YOU THINK --AND ISRAEL HAS JUST SAID, WHOEVER IRAN CHOOSES AS A SUCCESSOR TO KHAMENEI WILL PRETTY MUCH ASSASSINATE THEM?

>> MR.

HEGSETH HAS SENT OUT IN HIS OWN EMOTIONAL WAY [ INAUDIBLE ] ABOUT MISSILES AND NUCLEAR.

NOW THAT GIVES THE MILITARY TARGETS THEY CAN HIT AND TARGETS THEY CAN DEMONSTRATE AS BEING DESTROYED BUT I THINK THAT WILL END UP BEING THE GOAL OF THE U. S. ADMINISTRATION, AND AS THE PRESSURE ON THE ECONOMY, ON GLOBAL MARKETS RAMP UP, PUT PRESSURE ON ENERGY SUPPLIES, I THINK THE PRESIDENT WILL FEEL THAT THERE IS A TIME TO DECLARE, A TIME TO FINISH THIS CONFLICT.

WE WILL WAKE UP ONE MORNING LIKE WE DID LAST SATURDAY, WHEN WE DISCOVERED SUDDENLY THIS HAD STARTED, WE WILL WAKE UP ONE MORNING AND FIND IT SUDDENLY BEING FINISHED, AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE A SENSIBLE THING TO DO.

>> AND YET, IT LEAVES THE IRANIAN PEOPLE, THE MAJORITY OF WHOM I WANTED TO SEE AN END TO THIS REGIME AND THOUGHT THAT WAS WHAT THEY WERE GETTING AND HAD BEEN IN THE STREETS TO AN EXTENT CELEBRATING CERTAINLY THE DEATH OF KHAMENEI AND THE REST, WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS TO THEM?

>> WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY THE MOOD OF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE, EXCEPT THAT HE IS VERY ANGRY AGAINST THE REGIME.

THE RICHNESS OF THE IRANIAN CULTURE, STRENGTH OF THE IRANIAN ECONOMY HAS JUST BEEN THROWN AWAY OVER THE LAST 40 YEARS, AND I THINK THERE IS A DEEP DESIRE TO SEE AN END TO THE REGIME, BUT THE IDEA THAT ORDINARY PEOPLE, UNARMED ON THE STREETS, WITHOUT LEADERS, WITHOUT A MILITIA, CAN TAKE OVER IS HIGH IN THE SKY, IT IS FANTASY.

SO, I DON'T THINK THAT IS A REALISTIC GOAL.

I AM GLAD THAT THE PENTAGON HAVE MANAGED TO WIND BACK THE BOWL.

>> THEY COULD WIND BACK WHATEVER THEY WANT.

THEY HAVE ENCOURAGED PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR FAITH IN THEIR HAND, SAYING WE ARE GIVING YOU THE CONDITIONS.

YOU HAVE JUST SAID IT IS IMPOSSIBLE, AN UNARMED PEOPLE AGAINST A HIGHLY ARMED FORCE, SO WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM, DO YOU THINK THE REGIME GOES AFTER THEM AGAIN?

>> IT DEPENDS HOW FAR THEY STICK THEIR HEADS UP THE PARAPET.

ANYBODY WHO WARNS THEM WILL BE CONSIDERED AS AN AGENT OF ISRAEL AND THE UNITED STATES.

AND THE TERRIBLE MASSACRES OF THE IRANIAN DEMONSTRATORS AFTER THE LAST PROTEST AT THE TURN OF THE YEAR.

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING DEEP INTO THE MINDS OF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE.

THEY KNOW THAT THEY GOT A TERRIBLE REGIME AND THERE ISN'T A MEANS OF OVERTHROWING IT, NOT A SIMPLE MEANS.

IF THE REGIME WAS TO COLLAPSE, MAYBE THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF CREATING SOMETHING NEW IN ITS PLACE, BUT AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THE REGIME HAS UP TO 1 MILLION PEOPLE IN THEIR SECURITY FORCES, IN THE IRG SEE, AND THE PROCEEDS TO MILITIA, AND SO ON, WHO SEEM TO BE WILLING TO USE FORCE AGAINST THE IRANIAN PEOPLE.

IT IS A ROUGH BALLPARK FIGURE, BUT IT IS ABOUT --I HAVE CONFIDENCE IT IS ABOUT RIGHT, THE RIGHT MAGNITUDE, AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, IT SEEMS, WERE KILLED JUST EARLIER THIS YEAR.

I THINK IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE TO URGE PEOPLE TO RISE UP WHEN YOU ARE NOT OFFERING THEM ANY SUPPORT, ANY PROTECTION AT ALL.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> AND FINALLY, PRECIOUS CULTURAL HERITAGE UNDER FIRE, AS WELL AS THE CIVILIANS CAUGHT UP IN THIS WAR.

THE PALACE IN DOWNTOWN TEHRAN WAS DAMAGED IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE U. S.

-ISRAELI STRIKE, THAT IS ACCORDING TO IRANIAN STATE MEDIA.

THE MAGNIFICENT MIRRORED HALLS ARE A SYMBOL OF IRANIAN CULTURE DATING BACK HUNDREDS OF YEARS, AND IT IS A UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE SITE.

IT IS ALSO WHERE THE LAST SHAH WAS CROWNED IN 1967.

HIS SEVEN-YEAR-OLD SON AND HEIR SITTING BY HIS SIDE.

ISRAEL SAYS AN IRANIAN STRIKE DESTROYED A SYNAGOGUE AND KILLED NINE PEOPLE.

UNESCO IS SOUNDING THE ALARM, REMINDED ALL PARTIES THAT SITES LIKE THESE ARE PROTECTED UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, TRYING TO PROTECT THEM THEMSELVES BY SHARING THE COORDINATES OF SIGNIFICANT CULTURAL LOCATIONS.

AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.

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