OTR coming up next with Wendy Block from a coalition of groups opposing the statewide vote to rewrite the state constitution.

So sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in par by Bellwether Public Relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

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And now this edition of Off the Record, with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very much.

Welcome to Studio C for another edition of Off the Record on this important weekend with the Republican convention coming up.

But the backers 8000 of them, Simon got what they wanted, a reprieve.

Yeah.

This is just the renewal of a physicians licensing compact that allows people who are medically certified in other states to practice in Michigan.

We could have lost thousands of doctors had this not been renewed.

But this is one of those issues where you have candidates in marginal districts, peopl in competitive legislative seats who really want to ge their name on an important law before they go up for reelection.

And then there was a huge spat over that.

the the, the the Senate Democratic leader has been critical of the speaker on thi could have been done last year.

She was, quote, dismayed.

I mean, I think it was a stan off that did not have to happen.

And I think anybody looking at it with an objective, I in, in normal everyday life in Michiga would be pretty disgusted by it that it took until down to th wire to pass a very routine bill just to allow out-of-state doctors to work in Michigan.

As you guys know, for months.

And Mr.

Hall has been taking on Miss breaks, right.

You know, critical manner.

We sat down with her the other day and she sort of returned the volume.

Let's listen to her.

And then the speaker.

After Republican Speaker Matt Hall and Senate Democratic Leader Winnie Brinks shook hands on that bipartisan deal last week.

Speaker Hall was upbeat about the future.

I think it's a good reason to be optimistic about the future.

But Senator Brinks, not so much.

That's really up to him.

Senato Brinks is critical of the manner in which she says the speaker is running the Michigan House with the House operating under Speaker Hall.

You know, he seems to think that everything needs to be a problem, that he can then claim that he solves.

and so it makes it really difficult to get things done for the people of Michigan.

She notes he says a lot of things, but.

If the things that he, would like to work on, were backed up by action, not just words, it would be a very good sign for things to come.

but the way things have gone with, this speaker, it's one day at a time.

but we continue to, be ready to work together to get a budget done on time and responsibly.

The Democratic leader alleges that he is creating, quote, barriers in what should be normal legislative relationships.

With this alleged endgame in mind.

Instead, we've got, you know, a caucus over, in the House that's really hellben on doing as little as possible.

So is she upbeat about things changing?

I don't anticipate that that's going to change drastically.

Six news has reached out to the speaker for her response.

I was surprised that, to see her so negative in her comments.

Democratic Senate Leader Winnie Brinks argues that Speaker Matt Hall, a Republican, wants to create problems in the legislative process and then take credit for resolving them.

The speaker rejects that notion.

He feels he is working well with the Democratic governor, and quote “I've gotte lots of stuff done” end quote.

But he also observes tha trying to work a deal with Mrs.

Brinks, on the other hand, well, at least something to be desired, he says.

I think we have to give her a little bit of grace here.

she's representing a group of very radical people in the Senate Democrat Caucus, and I think it's hard for her to identify what exactly it is that she wants often.

After Speake Hall reports that in the past, he and former Democratic Speaker Joe, he tried to work out deal only to send them to the Senate under Miss Breaks control where they failed.

There's one common denominator.

It's when he breaks.

But he also credits Miss Brinks for putting up a controversial vote that none of her colleagues wanted to vote on.

Meanwhile, Senator Brinks retorts that the speaker is, quote, hell bent on doing as little as possible, and he comes back.

That' because some of the legislation Democrats wan is not meaningful to tax payers.

Were working on things that are consequential, that are meaningful, that make a difference to people.

And we're cutting out all this stupid stuff.

Miss Brinks says she does want to work with the speaker of the futur to get the budget done on time, and she contends that really depends on him, on whether that happens.

I agree with her.

I mean, it is up to me.

And part of the reason for that is, you know, I'm the really the main leader in the legislature.

Mr.

Hall, in essence, rejects all of her criticisms and has this advice for her.

You know, maybe she should take some time over the spring break and, relax a little because we're doing some great work.

Mr.

Ballenger, why are you laughing, sir?

Well, there's a lot of fear and loathing between when he breaks and Matt Hall.

I mean, this is not lik the good old days where you had Democratic leader like Bob Emerson and John Cherry and and Republican like Ken Sikkema and Dan Degrow these guys could get along.

These two people loathe each other.

And Winnie Brinks finally bit back after Hal had relentlessly battered her.

He has about a nine month advantage on her, right?

Yeah, at least that much.

Yeah.

And and so they finally got this deal done on this bill.

It should have been no brainer done a long time ago.

And it would have been done in the past.

I'm pretty sure, if those leaders of the path were still in place, but they're not.

Mrs.

LeBlanc, your reaction to her particularly?

I mean, I actually think I've heard stronger from her in the past.

I think when Republicans last December said or cut a ton from the budget, she said there was a special place in hell for folks who cut funding for one particular program that that benefited, newborn infants.

And she, So, I mean, this wa this was obviously very strong.

She's obviously getting pretty frustrated about this.

That issue with the doctors licensing was one that did not need to happen.

And it bodes pretty poorly for for the budgeting process.

If if they can't even get a doctor's licensing bill through withou that kind of drama around, it.

I mean when you build your political, or you're attempting to build your political brand as, Speaker Hall has on sort of disrupting the statu quo and sort of ending politics as usual.

that means that you're also disrupting the parts of, you know, this town that sort of have worked relatively well over the past few years.

The work that Governor Whitmer has put in to sort of have a good working relationship with the with a Republican dominate legislature in her first term.

you know, that was something that, you know having a functional relationship where people have open avenues of communication and can sort of work to get things done.

That's a little bit difficult to preserve.

When Matt Hall has decided that he wants to make himself a vital component of every conversation that happens in the legislature.

All right Let's talk about polling data.

We got the governor's race, and a, appears reliable, independent source claiming this race is now a dead heat between two guys.

Yeah, exactly.

Perry Johnson and John James.

I mean, this is the first poll that has been taken since this avalanche of TV ads and media blitz began on January 26th, and it's going to extend until April 7th by Perry Johnson, $13.5 million being spent on media unprecedented.

And before Johnson entered the race and started this media blitz, James was way ahead in every poll that had ever been taken.

Ahead of, Mike Cox and Aric Nesbitt and Tom Leonard.

Now, this is the first time we've seen a poll after the media blitz with Johnson in the race, and it's, gained 23%.

Johnson, a 20%.

So within the margin of error.

Error.

Cox way behind 6%.

Nesbitt 5%.

Leonard 3%.

and so I think it's looking like it's going to boil dow to a two man race at this point.

But there are four months to go and anything can happen.

What do you make of those numbers?

Yeah, I mean, I think, like Bill said there's still four months to go.

And we know from Michigan past Michigan elections, past that things are unpredictable, here in terms of primaries and then in general too.

But but I do think right now, I mean, I think it's a reflection not just of, of outspending by Perry Johnson, but also the fact that he is showing up at events.

I think John James has made a decision, for some events so far not to show up there, I think is being noticed by grassroots Republicans and, and and even further ou than that, like it's you get you just get less face time if you don't show up at these events.

And and so I think even people who aren't, you know, totally plugged in to the, the primary or, o what's happening in these races, they see Perry Johnson face more.

So there's there's going to be more recognition there.

Yeah.

I think it's better noted.

Of course, primaries are primarily about name ID.

You want to make sure that the people who are voting in your primary know who you are and sort of, at least in vague terms, what you want to do.

That's exactl what Perry Johnson's been doing with all these ads.

A 32nd spo where he's essentially saying, you know, one policy proposal that he has, regardless of how realistic or plausible they may be.

And he's, you know, clearly has the personal wealth to sustain this sort of ad blitz.

And and we should note that this is an extraordinary amount of money, in 2022, Gretchen Whitmer raised about $40 million.

Throughout the course of her campaign.

He pledged $10 million in ad spending in March.

While I can't confirm tha that's the amount that he spent, it's what his campaign has said he's going to spend.

And so, you know that's really going to take you a long way in a primary like this.

John James has really benefited from the fact that he's had two statewide campaigns already for people to learn who he is and what he's about.

And Mr.

Johnson is making an issue out of that, that he's a two time loser, which I know tha just raises James people's nuts because, you know, he gets improved on his test scores as the as the game went on, with all these guys apparently going to show up at the convention and work the floor?

Well, Johnson certainly has.

I don't know what James is best pointed out.

James has been a no show at many Republican events.

He started to pick it up a little bit once Johnson entered the race, and he realized he's going to have some competition.

We'll see what happens.

And what about the U.S.

Senate race?

Is that close?

U.S.

Senate race?

There's some polls coming out, dueling polls by McMorrow, Mallory McMorrow, the state senator, and Haley Stevens, the U.S.

representative.

And each one she shows herself ahead but they're tight, and Abdul El Sayed is right behind.

I mean, these three are close together in fundraising and in polling strength, and there are four months to g again until the primary there.

So anything can happen in that race.

the Democrat side of the U.S.

Senate race is turbulent.

The Republican side is pretty much settled with Mike Rogers, the almost certain nominee.

If you're a Republican running for any office and you're looking at your president in the problems that he's currently having, what are you thinking?

I really hope that those gas prices go down between now and November, more or less.

I mean, if, it has been the Democratic game plan for nine years now to talk about sort of if affordability is the main issue, and when the Strait of Hormuz, off the coast of Iran remains closed and there's not oil flowing, then that's going to be a lot tougher sell, especially as we see we have a petroleum based economy in many other field beyond just filling up your car.

And we're going to see those cascading effects and it's going to money.

But if you're running for a Michigan House sea and then the gas prices are not one of the issues, that' part of the legislative process.

Look, look, what happen nationally can have a big impact on Michigan.

2006 20 years ago, was a very bad midterm special election, for George H.W.

Bush.

And the Republicans took a bath here in Michigan.

They lost control of the House, and they almost lost control of the state Senate.

So it can have an impact on races here in Michigan.

And if Trump remains right now at 36% which is the most recent poll, Republicans are going to take a bath in November, and it' going to affect all these races, and they're going to lose control of the House as a majority party.

And I think a lot of people are voting straight ticket at the end of the day, too.

So if they're ticked off with a Republican at the top of the ticket, and his connect hi or her connections to to Trump, it is going to affect those down the ballot as well.

Well, this should be an interesting convention this weekend.

We'll see who shows up and who doesn't, like, show up now with Wendy Block who is from the Michigan Chamber of Commerce.

But Wendy, you're working for an organization which is urging urging Michigan voters to vote no on rewriting the Constitution.

Let me ask you this question.

Are you concerned that it may pass, or are you afraid it may pass?

We definitely hav concerns about it being passed.

Right?

We are living in a time right now where I think a lot of peopl just don't like the status quo.

And so, when people are presented with this idea of whether we want to fully rewrite the Michigan Constitution or do so in part, we think voters, if they aren't educated about the issue, might say, that sounds like a good idea, but we believe that there ar many risks involved with calling for a constitutional convention, and that voters need to be aware of the reasons that they might want to consider voting no on proposal one of 2026.

This automatic question that appears on the Michigan ballot every 16 years.

So what's the worst thing that could happen from a business standpoint?

Well, if voters decide to cal for a constitutional convention or con con, as we call it, we just think there it's a lot o chaos is going to ensue, right?

We're going to elect 148 delegates to, redraw the Michigan Constitution, and they can look at any number of issues.

They can basically put anything into the Constitution.

They could throw away the current Constitution and completely start over.

So we are really concerned about the uncertainty that this will create for Michigan businesses and families, if you think about it.

So in this legislative sessio alone, we're about 15 months in, over 2700 bills have been introduced.

That's 2700 different ideas.

Just in the legislature alone.

And then you start adding this kind of citizen component on top of it.

We think this could take years.

It could relate, resulting a lot of gridlock and just big questions for the future of Michigan.

Wendy, who is behind your effort and your organization?

What are you system?

Are you bipartisan?

Nonpartisan?

What?

Yeah.

So our coalition is, just getting off the ground, but it is a very broad and diverse coalition.

And you might say, wait the Michigan Chamber is involved with some of these other groups on opposing con con?

And the answer is yes.

So we have teamed u with, groups like the AFL, CIO, the Michigan Education Association, the League of Conservation Voter Business leaders for Michigan.

And we would expect many other groups of different political persuasions to be joining us moving forward.

Why did you feel this time was so important to organize like this?

I mean, I remember the three previous votes on this.

I don't remember an organization getting involved, opposing it.

And those all got creamed by huge margins.

Why is it going to be any different this time?

Yeah so actually, we have a very long organizational history of opposing a con con.

This has gone down by about 70% of the vote every time it's gone to Michigan voters.

But that has happened because groups like the Michigan Chamber have committed to educating our members as well as the general public about the risks and the dangers, involved with this process.

So this is no different from for us, and certainly, for many of the other groups that are involved with us this round.

I was really interested in seeing the announcement of your coalition, given how as you noted, broad and diverse it is to see the Michigan Chamber partnered with, I believe, the League of Conservation Voters, for example, who often find themselves on the opposite side of a huge number of issues.

What are you going to say to critics of this effort that this is just simply an effort by the professional political class to rally together and preserve the status quo?

Yeah.

So, we hope that this people will take note of the broadness of this coalition.

Right?

We are in a time right now where there's a lot of political polarization, and we're hopeful that voters will lift up their heads when they see that business and labor and other interest groups have come together to oppose a con con.

So certainly, you know, this i a broad tent, big tent effort.

And it needs to be just so people from all different political persuasions understand.

But what I would say is, you know, do people who may say, well, special interests.

Right.

We are a special interest for Michigan.

in general, we believe in a strong and healthy business climate.

We believe that a strong and healthy business climate, lifts up families and communities.

So, you know, we're not, afraid of being called a special interest in this regard because we think we'r special interest for Michigan.

But, Wendy, I mean, I guess underlining what what Simon was saying there folks can look at the business groups, folks can look at the unions and say, you know, depending on which party is in power, those those groups hold tremendous sway.

Of course, they would want to protect the status quo.

That' why we need to have a con con.

I guess.

What do you say to that?

Is there a danger in you guys kind of joining together and showing this united front?

I suppose possibly.

But again, if we aren't willin to speak out about the concerns related to this, voters aren't going to understand what is at stake.

And what I would tell voters is that there already is a process today in our current Constitution to amend the Constitution.

So since our last Constitution was enacted by a con con, the Constitution has been amended 39 times.

49 propose amendments have been rejected.

So there is a process today to improve our Constitution.

We do not need to throw the whole thing in the garbage to start over, or to make changes, or to improve it.

Regardless of which sid you're on, what kinds of issues you want to see added or removed from the Constitution.

Yeah, but here's your problem.

30 years ago nobody wanted to throw garbage in the system, but today they do.

Yeah, but you know, there's risk and rewards for both sides on this issue.

Right.

So again going back to those 2700 bills that have been introduced in the legislative session just to date.

Right.

You think about the type of topics that could be proposed at a con con and the types of things we might have tax cuts, we might have tax increases, we might have more environmental regulations, we might have less we we might have more employment laws.

We might have less.

This is a high stakes game.

You don't know who these 148 delegates are going to be, and why they put their name in the hat to say, I want to be elected as a con con delegate.

What kind of special interest are they bringing to the table?

What kind of single cause activism type issues are they going to be pushing?

So I would caution peopl who think that maybe it couldn't get worse.

It might it I you know, I think thats.

When you talk about, when you talk about both sides, is there another side, is there a group supporting a con con or the number of groups that you fear?

Could they reach some havoc and upend the applecart?

Well we've certainly heard from some legislators that they're interested in a con con, both current and former legislators.

I think they're interested by this academic exercise.

Right.

Like, oh, what can we get?

Right?

What can we do?

and again, high risk, high reward, in terms of a formal, formal group supporting a con con, we've heard whispers that there might be a group forming, but so far, we haven't seen anything publicly.

You would expect the abortion people to be in there.

The anti-abortion folks, don't you?

Yeah.

I mean, good question.

We're not really sure how groups might come out.

It's still early days, right?

We're still several months away from the November election.

And so I think different groups like the Michigan Chambe and those that maybe are on the on the other side, if you will, are currently going through their process and trying to figure out with their members where they want to land on this.

But when we put this issue to our members and we represent about 5000 businesses across our great state, our members represent about 1 million Michigan workers.

They kind of took a look at this and said we should oppose is the group is are you guys do you have a dollar amount that you want everybody to kick in?

at this point, we're just kind of in the public awareness phase of things.

So, that's why I'm here today at 8:00 in the morning talking to all of you.

And do you have a budget?

How much are we going to spend?

How much are we going to spend on this?

You have a budget, TBD, TBD, and I can't speak for the for the formal coalition.

but I can speak for us in that we are going to look at resources and going to do what it what it takes to get the word out.

on the dangers of this proposal, I'm curious, you know, you said high risk and high reward.

What do you see as a major risk should it can't happen, and we see a new constitution come before voters.

Are you talking abou higher taxes, more regulation?

Yeah, exactly.

try to kind of spell that out there a little bit.

But, you know, tax issues obviousl are in our Constitution today.

So you could see delegate putting on the table new taxes.

You could see some pushing for tax cuts.

You know, what does that end up looking like.

What sorts of regulations might people want to put into the Constitution?

do you have an elected or an appointed judiciary?

You know, how do you govern our state's universities?

There's there's so many issues that could end up in the Constitution, really, this unfettered authority for this, these 148 delegates to decide what goes into a new constitution do like our tax system.

And you like our tax system as it exists today.

We're certainly saying that the current constitution is not perfect.

But frankly, if we want to change that, there is a process to changing that today.

I'm curious, you know, let's sa what you fear comes to pass and, and a con con is approved.

What do you envision for the battle?

First of the election of constitutional delegates and then the second for ratification?

Yeah.

So the process here is really interesting.

Right?

So, if voters say yes to proposal one on November 3rd of 2026, which of course we hope they will say no and put this issue to bed for the next 16 years.

But if assuming they say yes, the first step is for voters to pick these 148 delegates, one delegate from every state Hous and every state Senate district, and that needs to happen by May of 2027.

They will need to convene the con con to start drafting a new constitution by, October of 2027.

But from there, the process really is undefined, right?

They will need to govern themselves and they really have no deadline by which they nee to complete a new constitution.

So there becomes questions about what happens with the legislature during this time.

Are they put on the sidelines during that process?

Because anything they do, they might say, well, we don't like that.

Now we're going to write right the other side into the Constitution.

So really, you know, big questions about the legislative process during this time.

But ultimately, to sign this question, voters will need to decide by a simple majority vote whether or not they want to approve the work of a con con.

But when that would happen i still very much yeah, but when the last time this happened, like 61, 62, I mean, first of all, the thing barely passed by 7000 votes statewide.

And, you know, it, the legislature functioned perfectly wel while the con con was going on.

There was no huge breakdow of government during this time.

Why is it going to be any different this time?

well, I would argu that the political climate in, in the 1960s is very different than the political climate today where people are very polarized.

So that very well may be true.

And we would hope that that, does ring true in 2026, 2027.

But you never know wha what might happen again, back to this is going to create a lot of chaos, a lot of confusion, a lot of questions.

And that's why we think voters should vote no on proposal one of 2026.

And on that note, you owe me one, right?

They put a face on that last 1 in 61, George Romney.

Now, are you guys going to get a spokesperson who's going to be the face of this campaign?

Yay or nay?

TBD.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, Mrs.

Block.

Nice to have you on board.

Also our panel.

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