Thanks for tuning in.

This former Democratic mayor of Flint, Karen Weaver, is announcing her endorsement of Mike Duggan for governor.

Remember, she's a Democrat.

New polling data in the governor and U.S.

Senate races.

So, sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in par by Bellwether Public Relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

Learn more at bellwetherpr.com.

And now this edition of Off the Record, with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very much.

Welcome to Studio C, another edition of Off the Record.

And we have the Democrats going into Detroit this weekend for their convention.

And they take in polling data now.

I'm going to give you guys their choices to what's the lead?

The U.S.

Senate race on the Democratic side tied at the top, or the Republican race for governor tied at the top?

Which one do you guys like?

I'm going with C, which is the the number of undecided voters still in almost each of those regions.

That's not what I asked.

You should reach nearly 40%.

It's around 39% in many of these races, which just shows you how early we are so well in.

This is an important number because people look at the polling numbers and say race over or is too close to call.

You're right.

Those numbers on the critical part.

Bail me out here.

I don't know I mean, I think 2024 was no joke running joke was it was a vibes election, was the vibes around the campaign more so than what the candidates were actually saying?

I think when you hav this number of undecided voters, the pollin to what Zoe was saying, like it kind of adds to the vibes around the candidate.

You know, this whole time for example, in the Republican governors race, we've heard John James is the frontrunner.

You know, regardless of how many undecided voters there were.

And so when it gets to be starting to be maybe June, July, August, when you get to out toward that primary day, you think about, okay, who are the frontrunners?

Where who's the name ID and how much is name ID going to come down to it when people actually show up at the ballot box?

I mean, you can absolutely see that the Perry Johnson money is doing something right.

I mean, it just is.

and John James, you know, I was talking to Jason Rowe, a political strategist, who says, look, when you're polling originally at 50%, you know, you can really kind of only go down from there.

But Perry Johnson has in quick, quick time with millions and millions of dollars, got his name I.D.

up.

It's 21 for Johnson, 20 for James as a statistical dead heat.

Mike Cox at 10% And he issued the press release.

It's not.

Now it's a three man race.

Right.

Right.. What do you make of these numbers?

And Mike Cox is taking the slow burn approach here.

I mean he hasn't he.

Yes he's he's accumulate a bunch of money out of office, as a, as a private lawyer.

And he's now put a bunch of this into his campaign, but he hasn't hardly spent any of it yet.

Meanwhile Perry Johnson has thrown, like, a $20 million smoke bomb into John James's basement, and he's trying to smoke them out of there.

And and it hasn't quite worked yet.

John James has not quite emerged from the from the proverbial basemen where we think he's essentially running his campaign.

He is still being very, very low key, obviously took a lot of a little, lot of crap online a couple of weeks ago for like, being on vacation in the Turks and Caicos.

And the picture at Tiger Stadium.

Well postin pictures of from Tiger Stadium from a year before.

Jocelyn Benson did the same thing.

Comerica Park.

So they fought to a draw.

Well, but then they also James posted the video of him shooting guns at a gun range, and he was definitely not at a gun range that afternoon.

He was apparently, in the Caribbean somewhere, but nonetheless, we are still waiting for I mean, they're making a debate about the beach.

Still, James is not committed to debating any of these Republican candidates.

And the pressure is kind of continue.

He's agreed to go show up at a forum, in May.

I mean, it seems like he's sort of acting still like the front runner.

Right?

And that he doesn't need to do these things.

And, look, let's be honest, like, debates aren't great for the front runner if you're, you know, but but he can't necessarily act like the front runner anymore if you're looking at these polls.

But I also think the math here too, is just I think he's counting on a certain number of these candidates not making the ballot and not turning in enough signatures to make the ballot.

And so I think for the calculus campaign from the calculus, from my perspective, would be why debate and take the heat from seven people or howeve many other candidates there are, when you could just take the heat for maybe 3 or that actually make the ballot.

When it comes down to the bes thing for John James right now that all of this is happening in the month of April, the four of us are on the table, and maybe 6 or 7 other people that watch, okay are concerned about all of this, but it's a non-stor for a lot of people right now.

Is it not?

Henc the number of undecided voters.

I was going to say yes, that 39% or whatever.

But how about how about this El Sayed and McMorrow and Stevens race?

We are seeing El-Sayed, boost his numbers.

McMorrow coming in really close.

But, you know, Haley Stevens campaign is not happy with this poll because this is the Emerson College poll, which was done for the nextstar people.

Yeah.

Saying that they basically under polled older voter who they think are going to be the ones that, you know would go out for Haley Stevens.

In the end.

They're also saying it's going to date to that point.

Older voters are also typically the ones who actually show up to the polls on Election Day.

And so they're saying when it comes down to, you know, not just likely Democratic voters, but the people, the demographics most likely to show up at the polls on primary day.

They're saying those were also probably in the poll.

This race for U.S.

Senate Democratic nomination i is the long simmering civil war in the Democratic Party that is is exposing you know, Haley Stevens has got a got like a, you know, a baby boomer, essentially, pathway to the nomination.

And El-Sayed has has a, has a gen Z nomination.

and whether McMorrow tries to take the Gen-X, or elder millennials, to to to get.

Geriatric millennial.

Geriatric millennial.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Me, me and Zoe, tried to get to that pathway.

That seems to be where this emerges, and it's going to be coming into a real into enthusiasm and turnout game, which, you know still there arent.

Not a lot.

Obviously, poll shows are you know, almost 40% undecided.

There's there's a lot of people who just are, you know, aren't quite tuned in yet.

Yeah.

And not quite tuned in yet I think in the state but nationally.

Boy oh boy.

I mean it feels like you can't, you know, pick up Politico article or something else like that without this really being sort of a marquee race, which makes sense.

I mean, this open US Senate race could help determine the makeup of the Senate in the final two years of Donald Trump's in, in office.

All right Well, in the meantime, go ahead.

I was just going to say, yeah, I can make it the the makeup of the Senate during Trump's final terms in office.

But also to Chad's point, you know, this Democratic primary is also going to be a big barometer for what the future of the Democratic Party is and the viability of these candidates, especially in a state that Trump won twice.

And to see what type of candidate are Democrats looking for in this state?

Well, we'll see how they work.

The crowd there.

They have nothing to do with the convention except to work the crowd and go around and and pump the flesh and try to raise some money.

Right?

what's going to be the lead out of the convention?

Oh, I mean, who the AG and secretary of state candidates are, obviously.

And the winner is?

I mean, I still think, right, that if you're really looking at it, it's Garlin Gilchrist and Karen McDonald.

But I think anything could happen.

Its both of theirs to lose?

Yes, if the lieutenant governo of the state loses a nomination for Secretary of State, you would think that his political career is essentially in jeopardy.

Now, it's only on hold.

It's going to be it's going to be fascinating to watch.

You know, the Republican convention was quick.

It was over real quick.

This is going to be something to watch.

this AGs race between Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald and Washtenaw County Prosecutor Eli Savi has turned into a real dogfight.

there is opposition research flying in all directions.

Lots of issues.

Lots of issues between the two camps.

Just the nasty little side lawsuit.

I mean, this is this has gotten kind of dirty pretty fast, but we saw this eight years ago as well.

And Dana Nessel, you know, emerged as the as the nominee in that in that fight.

So, these things have happened.

And people in the Democratic Party usually gets back together at the end of the day.

But this weekend, 6 to 9000, you know, Democratic Party insiders are going to decide who their nominee is for this big race.

We should note to Kamala Harris, Kamala Harris is in Detroit.

Yeah.

On Saturday.

What's she doing there?

She has nothing else to do?

She she's coming with Cory Booke during the day during the day.

And then Andy Beshear, the Kentucky governor, another 2028 possibility also showing up.

Yep.

All right Matt Hall speake of the House has got a budget.

Let's take a look at his Under the speaker Matt Hall version of the new state budget proposed.

Every public school kid would get an additional $250 more a year for a grand total of $10,300 per pupil.

The speaker agrees with Governor Whitmer that more needs to be done to teach reading, to the tune of an additiona $150 million that he supports.

The Republican speaker also wants to expand the popular school breakfast and lunch program to include all school kids, not just those in the public schools.

And he wants to spend more each year for the next five years to continue to fix those roads.

We want to make a $100 million investment in roads to continue the work we just made.

In the great deal I made to keep investing in our roads.

To balance the book Governor Whitmer wants to siphon $400 billion out of the state rainy day fund.

The speaker would put $300 billion in it, but the speaker is also going after state programs for the city of Lansing.

MSU in the U of M Lansing should be cut, he says.

The $1 million pork subsidy for the city of Lansing, they call it Capital City Services.

That's waste.

The speaker proposes to take the average spendin for all of these program cuts, which he say will actually result in savings $220 billion in saving out of the budget of the U of M, and another $199 million out of the green and white.

Michigan State University.

You know, they've been, losing their way, losing focus of their core mission.

We see them, going into, things like our RX kids.

Which is a complete scam, which, is giving welfare to illegal aliens.

The speaker reports progress on the budget subcommittees.

He said next week in the House will finish their job.

And the Senate budget chair says they're moving on the Senate bills as well.

So will the budget be done without a government shutdown by July 4th?

Mr.

speaker?

You think July 4th.

Well, we'll see.

Yeah.

We'll see.

I mean, the first takeaway here is on our Rx kids this, cash, cash for young, moms and, young children program that, has, has been come out of MSU.

But sort of as a fiduciary.

I mean, Matt Hall voted for this, quote, scam.

I mean, he, he, he voted for it.

He went along with it at the end of the budget deal.

He could have shut down government over it.

He could have stopped Senate Majority leader Winnie Brinks from shoving it in the budget in the last in the last days of of of of last fall.

Or he could have pressured the governor to veto it.

He didn't do anything of the sort.

So it's interesting sort of they're voting for things and then they're turning around and attacking them.

Now they're going to try to make, you know, a new narrative is that this is all, you know, more money.

Chad, chad its called messaging.

Yeah, I know what they're doing.

I'm just trying to fact check here a little bit.

You find that humorous, Miss Clark?

Look, I think what's interesting here is, we're actually seeing some movement this week.

Quicker than you thought.

I was going to say.

This is why I'm saying Mia culpa.

Mia culpa.

I was not so sure that.

Dont throw in the towel yet.

You are wrong.

That is fair.

That is fair.

Because as we heard the speaker, you said, you know, July 4th.

Well, we'll see, you know, but at least we are seeing some movement here.

Yeah.

I think one of the things is how many of these, proposals are actually gonna make it to the final budget?

And how much of this is the speaker playing hardball to Chad's point about Rx kids.

This is a program that has bipartisan support.

You have some of his own members that supported our kids, has been expandin a lot into Republican districts like the entirety of the Upper Peninsula.

And so when you talk about some of these criticisms, you know he likes to talk about our kids, not, requiring citizenship as a metric of whether or not you receive the money.

You know, how many undocumented folks are really living in the Upper Peninsula to begin with?

And benefiting from that?

But to Zoe's point, too I think that the timing of this is what's really important.

And I think part of the timing comes from what's happening on the Senate side.

The Senate is also moving their budget proposals and passing the first.

They pass the first half of them out of the Appropriations Committee this week.

They're planning on doing more next week.

And so it's a competition and a race with that.

Let's put this in perspective.

This is all part of the budget ballet or the boogaloo or whatever you want to call it.

Okay.

Everybody stakes out their position, then they go in the room, fix the numbers, they come out, sign the thing, and we go home.

I mean, this has become more routine in this town where the governor puts out a fictional budget and Senate.

The House puts out a fictional budget, the Senate puts out a fictional budget.

We go on in our six month break, and then we pass something.

I think will be interesting to watch, too, is there was a lot of critique in the last budget cycle, aside from i being late was just sort of the the folks, only a couple folks being in sort of the room and hashing it out.

Right.

And the lawmakers not even knowing what was necessarily i the budget until the votes came.

Why would we want to read the budget?

Right why would we want to read what we're voting on?

So I think that'll b really interesting to see, too, if this is what happens.

Right?

I don't they look a if they can't get this done in what's left of April and May and June and bump up against live for July 4th, seems a very reasonable number to here, don't you all agree?

Well, considering July 1st is the statutory deadline, then July 4th, see what year.

Its a mushy deadline.

As we have seen.

Its a yield sign and it gets blown every time.

This is trying to negotiate with at this point more than was last year.

All right.

Let's call in the mayor and talk about her endorsement of you know, who.

Madam mayor it's nice to have you back on.

Off the Record, it is good to see you.

And, you had a kind of a bumpy trip in in the fog today.

Oh, yeah, I did, I did.

It's been a while.

Yes.

Well, let's let's cut to the chase.

Okay?

Let's assume that Mike Duggan down the road calls you up and says, yes, madam mayor, I want you to be my running mate.

What would you do?

You know what I had, and I have not even thought about that part at this time.

Think about it for me now.

Think think about it for you now?

You know what?

I would have to look and see what's best.

As far as getting him to the finish line.

Well, what if he says you can help me get there?

Well, I hope that's what I'm doing right now, actually, is helping him get there.

Because that's wh I'm here to help him get there.

How did you get to the decision to help him get there?

Well, you know what?

He called me.

And it's so funny because a lot of people have said, well, wait a minute, what are you doing?

But some people have forgotten.

I was the mayor and we had a relationship.

We were mayors at the same time.

He was there longer than me, of course, but we were there together.

And so we had a relationship.

And I remember, you know, everything that was going on with Flint and Detroit had its own issues as well.

But he called me, you know, I didn't call him.

He called me and he said you know, I see what's going on.

And if there's anything I can do to help you, let me know.

I mean, and I thought, wow, that was thank you, because I know you've got your own issues.

And so we talked and, you know, we were at different events together.

I watched him and I'd ask him different things about, what do you think about this or how did you handle that?

And he gave me good advice.

And so people, you know, some people didn't know about that relationship because they're like, we've got somebody there.

I said, no I have a relationship with him.

I've seen him in action, and I appreciate what I saw, and I appreciated him having my back because that helped m have the people of Flint back.

And so that's that's how we got together.

Did he do something while you're in office to help you in any way?

A lot of times it was saying, you know, he'd see me and I'm like, I need to talk.

I need to know, what do you think about this?

if I needed something set up, if there were certain people I needed to meet as far as in the city, he would help me with those things.

But to have somebody that I could just call up and say, here's what happened.

Well did he call you when and ask for your endorsement?

Oh.

This time?

Yeah.

yeah, he did.

He asked.

He told me what he was doing and, ask me, was I interested in being part of the team?

And I said, absolutely, because somebody that I knew already that I had seen their work, that I had seen their record and like I said, had reached out to me when I needed help when I was in a situation.

And, you know, under this national spotlight.

I appreciated that.

Madam mayor, with all due respect, I'm going to guess some Democrats who just heard that are thinking what?

Traitor?

They might be.

They might be, but they shouldn't be.

And I'm hoping that's what they see.

You know, one of the things I've thought about is when people said, well, he' independent, you're a Democrat.

I'm still a Democrat.

You know, I haven't changed that.

But, sometimes I think if we look close our eyes and listen to what they're saying, instead of looking at what letter is behind their name we might be much further along, because right now we're in such a toxic environment, it seems like, we formed opinions.

If we see an R if we see a D, and we need to, we need to be about the business of the people.

And that's what I see him doing.

Did Jocelyn Benso or Chris Swanson ever call you?

You know what?

I have not talked to Jocelyn Benson.

I have not, I did talk with Chris Swanson, but it was after I had already endorsed Mike Duggan.

And, And I told him, I said, I appreciate you calling me yourself because I've had other people call me about some things.

Well, they've had people call me, and I told them, I said and I consider Chris a friend, but and I just told him, I said we had a relationship.

I said and that's what this is about.

And I do think he's the best candidate, so I wouldn't do it if I didn't think that.

Is there a part of you that wishes Duggan had run as a Democra in this primary?

You know what?

No I don't have a problem wit him being an independent at all.

And that's an I might be a little bit different, but I'm hopin that voters are more educated, that they're paying more attention because you know, okay, I'm from Flint and we have been turned in by both sides.

You know, we've don it been done in by both sides.

And so that's why it took that away from me.

I've always believed in do your research listen to what they're saying.

Because when I was in office, I worked with Republicans and I was able to get some things done.

I worked with some Democrats, but like I say it, bad decisions were made on both sides, so I don't have a problem with that.

I think it's kind of refreshing, actually, to, to just get that part of it off.

But one of the things I know has to be done is educating people about how to vote, because some people want to vote straight ticket and not realize you can do tha in this general and still color in that circle.

Madame Mayor It's interesting that on the first phone call that he calls for your endorsement, you say, yes, rather then I got to check with my other Democrat and see what's going on there.

Before I give you that, Mr.

Mayor.

The first the first phone call, let me back up because I'm glad you said that.

The first time I got a call, it was from somebody that I'm like, who is this?

And so I didn't do anything.

But I was watching him.

It was one of his handlers.

Right.

But I was watching, you know, I was watching him So they were teeing you up for the phone call.

Maybe so.

Maybe it was a tee up.

The question is still on the table.

You still said yes after the phone call?

Yes.

Rather than saying, well, you know, I got to check with Jocelyn Benson or going to Chris and see what's going on, and then I'll call you back.

Mr.

Mayor.

No, I didn't do that.

and part of it was because like I said of the relationship, I watched him.

But the other thing was I had some concerns with Benson about concerns.

And what are they?

And some of them were some things that had taken place in Flint.

You know, it's really interesting because we had a lot of issues going on, especially around the voting process.

And, we don't trust the voting process there.

I'm just going to be honest with you, we haven't trusted it for a while.

And that was brought to her attention.

And when we reached out and several of us reached out about that, wrote letters about what was going on, but we're told, you know, if we talk about that, we're pushing a Republican agenda.

And I thought, you know, this should be everybody's agenda to want to trust the voting process.

So she stiffed you?

Well, those are your words.

But yes.

What do you need to see to to get voting feeling more safe in your mind then?

Okay.

Look I want to say one more thing about that.

And then I'll answer that because I also have some concerns around what was going on with these race discrimination lawsuits with these black women.

You know, I mean, I have to talk about that as well.

And that was concerning.

And to not have that addressed, you know, I have questions about that.

And I know some of those people that work for her that, you know, went on record saying, no, we witnessed these things happen.

Well in fact one of them resigned Yes.

Absolutely.

What was his name?

Heaster.

Wheeler.

Yeah.

Heaster Wheeler.

So.

And I talked with him not that long ago.

So.

So I knew I wasn't going in that direction.

I knew I wasn't going in that direction.

So that's that's what happened with that.

So talking about the the belief of of elections and election integrity, what do you need to see in Flint to, to make you feel better about things?

You know, that's that's a good question because one of the things we've talked about is, yes, you can always make sure that you have people in plac while this process is going on.

But even when we went through you know, the canvasing and the is that the canvasing committee, where they're lookin at the votes and certifies.

Yes.

And issues were brought up.

There were, some ballot boxes hadn't been sealed properly.

So you couldn't do anything with them.

there were issues where people said, well this is what I was told to do.

And you hear people that are part of this grou saying, well, that's just Flint.

Well, that's not right.

You know, that's just Flint i not an answer to the question.

And we deserve integrity an honesty in the voting process.

And so that should be an issue that I believe everybody should be concerned about.

It shouldn't matter if there's an R or D behind your name.

We want to know that when we g in there that our votes count.

We want to trust the absente ballot process, we want to trust the voting process.

And so some of it is something I've been workin on, is really educating people.

And in fact, that's why I'm wearing this.

I've been wearing it all yea long because we get accused of, oh, it's election time, here they come.

And now they want to talk about it.

And so I wear this because it' like, why are you wearing that?

Because we need to talk about it now.

Because it should be an ongoing process.

Let me ask you sort of a big picture.

What's the some scenario round numbers.

The Republican Governors Association puts $100 million into this race.

Democrat Governors Association puts $100 million into this race.

There's no, IGA Independent Governors Association.

who i going to possibly help Duggan, counter this onslaught of hundreds of millions of dollars from th traditional two party machine?

Well, you know what?

I think he has created a lot of excitement.

And I'll tell you what I do believe about Duggan.

if anybody can do that, he can, because we saw him do a write in campaign, I mean, a write in election as mayor.

And it's like, how do you how do you do that?

Who gets to pull those kinds of things off?

But I think that, people are looking for a Duggan.

I think people are looking for someone that's not going to, put politics over the people.

And it's funny, because that's what he has talked about is we're putting people over, people over the politics as we move forward.

And I think there are a lot o people that have a lot of money that want to see that happen, and people have a lot of confidenc in Duggan, to me as they should.

When I just talk to people in West Michigan especially, you know, I still talk to a lot of people that just don't know who Mike Duggan is, period.

And I wonder how you feel like the campaign can overcome some of that, especially Outstate?

You know what?

And that's a question.

We have been having that conversation.

And it was funn because probably about a month and a half ago, he was talking with, you know, with the group and he said, you know, the first time I went in this was, in northern Michigan, not western Michigan, but it was up north and he said, you know, I walked in and a lot of people didn't know who I was.

He said, and I've been going there when I went back, people recognize me.

And so that's what we're saying is we've got to get you into these other spaces and, you know, make sure you've got that kind of recognition.

So spend some time there.

Are you are in the inner circle?

Is he consulting you on campaign strategy?

Yes, we have talked about that.

And in that room, how many people are in that room?

How many people are in that room?

That's a good question.

Thank you.

It's not a well, it depends, because there have been different, conglomerates on either side.

On an average day.

On an average day, the meetings that I have been in attendance, some of them have been 20.

20 people?

Some of them have been a little more.

Sometimes it's a little less.

It's never been five or 6 or 7.

Oh yeah.

You know what I'm getting at.

Yeah.

You're trying to find out abou a kitchen cabinet or something.

You are very good Madame Mayor.

And I want to get back to my original question, which I have to go back and look at the tape on a lieutenant governor.

Okay.

Okay.

That you would be interested in that?

You know what I see when you said, lieutenant governor, I thought you were talking about Garlin Gilchrist.

I thought you were going to ask me somethin about the lieutenant governor.

I didn't think you were asking me about me.

Alright lets start again if Mike Duggan calls up and says, I'm offering you lieutenant governor, You would say?

I would have a conversation with him about that and say, tell me why you think I'm the best.

How do I help you in that position?

You can help me win this race.

Okay.

And I would I would want to have a conversation.

And the answer would be?

I don't know yet.

Because you know what?

One of the things it was even when I ran for mayor, that is not a 9 to 5 job.

That is something that, I at least.

Could you do the job?

Yeah, I could do the job.

So why not say yes?

Well, there are a lot of jobs that you can do that you don't say yes to.

Madame will you call me when you do?

Yes.

All right.

Very good.

How about that.

How about that?

But.

But if I call you that phone, better go through.

And on that ominous note.

Do you want to stay for overtime?

Sure.

All right, let's do that.

Let's do overtime.

Go to wkar.org for more of our conversation with the mayor.

Once I get my phone working.

Thank you.

And by the way, it was dead this week.

And then we'll be back for more.

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