Welcome back.

Former Democratic Lieutenant Governor John Cherry is in the queue talking about keeping our elections safe and another drop out in the race for governor name Mike Cox.

So sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

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And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Welcome to studio C, another edition of Off the Record a busy week.

This always happens.

We put the show to bed and then something big happens.

Or in the case of Mike Cox, something little.

He dropped out of the race.

Let's take a look at that story.

So what do all these politicians have in common?

Well, they all thought that they could win a statewide election until they realized they couldn't.

The most recent drop out of the Republican race for governor is Mike Cox.

He probably knew he would not get President Trump's endorsement.

Yet here he steadfastly danced around the question, Did Mr.

Trump win the 2020 election?

He didn't want to answer because, well, maybe Mr.

Trump was going to endorse him.

What does that have to do with fixing education?

What does have to do with fixing our economy?

It has to do about leveling with the people at home on what you believe inside about something that we've all moved on from.

At the Republican convention last year, Ralph Rebandt along with Tom Leonard and Eric Nisbet, were all upbeat about winning this state.

But you can win.

They said, oh, this is why we're running, is that Michigan needs a leader who's running mate.

My running mate will figure that out after I win in August.

However, Candidate Rebandt was in trouble from the get go.

He claims the party bigwigs never wanted him to run in the first place.

And to make matters worse, he couldn't get on the ballot.

He didn't file enough valid signatures.

Meanwhile, Democratic candidate for governor, Lieutenant Governor Garlin Gilchrist, was told over a year ago you should run for secretary of state and not governor.

Well, he finally got the message.

He dropped out of the governor's race.

And now is indeed running for what else?

Secretary of state.

Another dropout, Mallory McMorrow, who dropped out of the crowded Democratic race for the U.S.

Senate and then two independents, Carla Wagner and Anthony Hudson, started out as Republicans, but they left the party and then left the race.

But perhaps the biggest drop out of all the shocker.

First independent candidate for governor, Mike Duggan, figured it out.

He could not win.

Turns out President Donald Trump is a major reason why most of these candidates for governor dropped out without their endorsement.

They figured we don't have a chance.

The president did end up endorsing John James.

So that's a long list of people.

You know, that's a book and a half for you.

That's a great set up piece because that's exactly where I was going.

I mean, how unusual has this campaign been to see people drop out even after they've made the ballot?

I mean, nobody, nobody, is going to be able I mean, everybody's gonna be able to vote for Mike Cox if they want to.

His name's already on the ballot.

You know, it makes you think, you know, a year ago, these these candidates for governor on the Republican side all did these debates hosted by the Republican Party.

And every single one of those people who participated in those debates are is no longer actively running for governor.

Not a single one.

And I just find that whole thing.

I just find that extremely fascinating, that these people start a year in advance and are trying to get that snowball rolling, and in the end, it's just big money or, legacy, name ID that gets you going.

Yeah.

I mean, and if anybody is testament to that, I think it's Mike Cox who really did put in a lot of effort into this campaign.

He showed up to every event we're even talking while the clip was running about how he showed up in a debate, talking during my story.

We were just confirming something.

I'm sorry, we're complimenting the piece.

Really, Tim.

Yeah.

So you got to go into politics.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but but we were talking about how he, you know, like he has shown up time and again at all of those events, even the MEA debate.

I think he was one of the only Republicans to show up there.

So he definitely put his all into it.

But again, that Trump endorsement in a Republican primary is is really key to all of this.

Billy, the question is whether this is unique to Michigan, all these dropouts or whether it's a national phenomenon.

Look, Janet Mills, the governor of Maine, remember running for the U.S.

Senate, dropped out in the middle of not in the middle of the race, the beginning of the race in Wisconsin, a key candidate dropped out.

I mean, it's happening in other states, too.

I'm wondering if it's a national phenomenon.

And there are reasons for this, for the money, whether it's Trump, it's Trump.

If we take him out of the equation, well, Janet Mills was a Democrat.

Yeah.

Okay.

But if we take him out of the equation, Mike is still in this race.

Is he not?

Yes.

Yes he is.

And I suppose I'm taking Trump on.

Sure, sure.

Okay.

But I think it gets to the larger question, though, that Bill's bringing up.

Why are these people giving up like Mallory McMorrow?

I mean, is it is we have we gotten to the point where when you realize that you are absolutely not going to win the race, you're just going to say, you know what?

I'm not going to campaign anymore.

It's not worth the effort.

I mean, we don't we haven't seen that before.

I mean, we we bring in our guests later in asking the same thing, but I just find this having covered this in the last 25 years, and you guys have way more experience than me that people didn't use to drop out like this.

I mean, they ran to the bitter, to the bitter, to the bitter end.

I don't get this.

Even if it was hopeless.

Well, what?

It surprised me about her.

She dropped out before the debates.

Yeah.

Go through the drill.

You know, lightning might struck somebody, but on the other side might say something stupid, and you win.

I think there's some pressure to on them to drop out and not split the vote.

You know, in, in probably Mallory McMahon's case more than most, but in others too, you know, these candidates.

Not only are they thinking, do I have a chance to win?

They're also thinking, if I don't win, who am I taking votes away from?

Who am I giving them to?

And I think there's a lot of, inner party pressure about that, about if if you're not going to win, get out.

Very astute.

In fact, when she sat in this chair, remember, she said they asked me not to run.

It's not your turn.

Right.

You know, there was the writing on the wall.

And so.

Well, now we're down to two, and it'll be interesting.

I want to talk a little bit about this absentee vote.

The numbers are pretty impressive.

People are turning out in large numbers.

Yes.

Yeah.

You know, the most impressive number I had is when I talked with Mark Grabner from Practical Political Data.

And he says that based on his estimations, 40% of voters have already voted as of this past Monday.

Wow.

And that the number just continues to increase every single day.

And that by the time you get to Election Day, we're going to have even more people having voted before Election Day than ever.

And the big reason for that is that instead of just mailing out absentee ballot applications, the change in the Constitution from 2022 says that if you're on the automatic file, you get a ballot automatically, just not an application.

So you've got the ballot in your hot hands, and when you've got that early, you're going to go ahead and you're going to vote early.

Well the number jumped from earlier this week, which was at 60 is 6014 and a jump to 66,500.

In this 8.9% return so far.

And the bad news for Republicans traditionally more Democrats vote absentee.

Yes.

No.

In the old days, more Republicans did.

But in recent history, yes.

Democrats more because mainly because Trump again discouraged early voting and absentee voting.

And he still lives to this day.

So he's dampened enthusiasm in the Republican Party for voting early and absentee.

Why the turnout so high?

I'm I'm not sure why the Democratic energy.

I got to tell you, most of these votes are Democrat.

But at the same time, I mean, that's that's a a bit of a drawback.

If you have people dropping out at the last minute.

Right.

There's a possibility that somebody put in an absentee ballot for McMorrow or for Cox or who have who.

And now they have to go in and they can get it back and they can change it.

But there's a deadline to that.

And which is today.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think some of this too is that voters, you know, a lot of voters want it over.

I mean, they're done.

I mean, they've made up their mind.

I mean, and and it's been so easy to get your ballot early and there's no reason anymore and there's no stigma behind it.

And, you know, if you're over a certain age and you can get it automatically, you're on the permanent list.

You're just going to get it all the time.

And you're like, hey, my mind's made up.

Why am I waiting?

Well, this is exactly why the Republicans, for years going through three secretaries of state in the Republican legislature, they all said, Maryland land.

Miss Johnson, okay.

And Candice Miller, give us give us absentee.

And they would stiff them because they knew this dynamic was at play.

Now the people took that out of their hands and they have to speak about taking out of your hands.

What's going on with the bridge, Beth?

What isn't going on?

What's the bridge?

It's been a bitter battle for several months now.

But, yeah, the Gordie Howe International Bridge is supposed to open to traffic on Monday.

And I say supposed to, because we've we've been proven wrong in the past with with last minute changes.

But today, really just a couple hours from now from taping, they're going to be celebrating on the Canadian side with the ribbon cutting with no Americans allowed because of the recent tariffs implemented for by President Trump.

Those tariffs don't take effect for 30 days.

Well, I think it's it's the fact of the matter, not so much the effective date.

So they're they're pretty upset about that.

In, in I mean, it has been a battle royale with with our Canadian neighbors since February.

I don't think anybody when when Snyder signed the agreement in 2012 could have predicted it would end like this.

So, Beth, like on Monday, are there going to be cars and trucks actually going across the bridge that we can see?

That's the plan.

If there's no smoke, if you see em.

If there's smoke, all bets are off.

They aren't even going to let Rick Snyder come across the bridge on the other side.

I mean, without him, there's no bridge.

You got to get a rowboat to get across the water.

I don't know, maybe they'll give him temporary Canadian citizenship or something to to be there.

Well, this all these developments this week put a damper on Speaker Hall, who sat in this chair last week and said, I want to call in the Canadian officials and Splain Lucey, what's going on with all this smoke?

His chances are now are slim and none and slim just left town.

Well, especially since the smoke cleared up and blown away.

You know, like everything else in Lansing, it seems like the smoke last week was the top of your, No, no, he's he's got he's got a dog bone, you know.

Does he.

Yeah.

He doesn't want to let go of this puppy.

Well, in that case, if he wants to bring in some Canadians to explain how big their forests are and why they can't get a helicopter in something 100 miles into a forest with no roads.

I mean, he can get that answer, but I think we already know the reason why Canada can't put out those fires, which is geography.

I mean, the forests are so massive and the number of utility roads are so few that they just can't get to them.

A lightning strikes a tree in a very dry area, and the fire just goes and you can't get to it.

Why didn't the U.S.

send in some of our bombers?

Because they couldn't do any better than the Canadians are.

Well, we know it.

They.

But he bought five new ones and another 20 did the thing.

It might have made a dent.

Yes.

No.

He died.

Probably not, I think.

Not even close.

All right, let's call on our guest, former Lieutenant Governor John Kerry.

Mr.. Lieutenant governor, it's good to see you back in that chair, sir.

It's good to be here.

Good to see everyone.

We're going to waive the swearing in and cut to the chase, okay?

You're working on a democracy defense fund.

You, John Engler, Jim Blanchard and Mike Bishop putting the band back together.

We have.

What is your worst fear on Election Day?

Well, Donald Trump calling federal troops.

Well, I think he is going to do that.

And, I it's been interesting to see some of the reaction to that.

I mean, I saw Gavin Newsom on television said if they break California law, they will be prosecuted.

I even think Dana Nessel made some comments to that effect, too.

So it really kind of begins to raise the ante in this whole process.

But I think in the end, it's about trying to discourage people to come out and vote.

I mean, if you're fearing that there can be trauma at the polls, you won't show up.

But that may be one of the reasons why people are casting their ballot right now.

They don't want to be around when that happens.

They want to they want to stay away from that kind of, turmoil.

What his people would say.

We want to protect the election, to make sure it's safe for everybody to vote, and that every ballot is counted safely and correctly.

Well, that happens already.

I mean, to and in fact, the The Democracy Defense Project did a poll, back in 1924, 78% of Michigan residents believe their elections were secure, accurate and safe.

And we did a subsequent poll in June of last year.

That number went up to 88%.

So Michigan residents believe, by and large, that those elections, are well run.

And why?

Because it's being run by their neighbors.

I mean, they go to the polling place, they see their neighbor.

Oftentimes it's a senior citizen.

They often know their county or city clerk.

So they have a great deal of confidence in what's happens here.

And so I think he's trying to he's trying to cast this as something that the public's just not buying.

Well, but historically, though, if you go back to 2020, the Republicans did buy into this argument that there's something wrong with our elections.

Why did Trump's claims back then get currency that is still lingering among some some, you know, sectors of the party?

Bill kind of put his finger on it earlier because he was you know, arguing against, voting by mail or absentee, Democrats voted by absentee Republicans, voted in person.

In person, votes are counted first.

So at the beginning of the night that he had run up these big margins of of leading and as those absentee ballots, mail ballots are counted, that lead disappeared and it reversed.

So there you're saying and it was different than it had been in the past because of the amount of mail voting that was occurring because of Covid.

And so it was this and it was it didn't seem to fall as votes normally do.

And so I think they thought they had won it early in the night.

And if you remember, he said it's time to close off the I mean, he wanted to he wanted to close off the counting right then and there because he was ahead and he knew it was coming.

He knew that there were going to be big votes coming out of the absentee ballot process.

So he captured the imagination of voters and their natural cynicism, toward something having a core of voters.

Yes.

A minority of voters.

He didn't capture everybody's.

Yeah.

I mean, the point is still it high number 78, 80%.

People say, hey, this is a safe, effective, fair process.

Do you think or do you think, people voters in Michigan typically are aware of the state's decentralized system.

Like, do you think there needs to be more education on how Michigan's election system actually works?

You know, I don't think that that's broadly known.

And that's one of the purposes that this democracy defense project is to go out there and kind of explain how this is done.

Mike Bishop and I, for instance, are going to, down to, Hillsdale, Hillsdale next week to meet with the clerk and talk about how the the elections are conducted in Hillsdale County, trying to get a sense for people to know that it's their local community that run these elections, and that's where they have confidence.

I mean, they believe they don't believe their neighbors cheat.

And and so, I think the more people understand that, the better they feel, more comfortable they feel about the process.

And, and I think one of the reasons Michigan, feels comfortable about their elections is that it really hasn't been much in the way of controversy, much in the way of cheating.

You know, there's some recounts and there's some close votes, but by and large, the the process goes pretty smoothly.

You know, it kind of reminds me, an old Doctor Seuss who's watching The Watcher and in the in the government here, I mean, you got the local Toronto and then the county's looking after them in the States, looking after the county.

And then if the feds got to get involved, I mean, there's layers to check to make sure that the locals have everything on the up and up.

That's right.

And then when these checks occur, for instance, the safe checking process that the president is touting, Utah did it.

And they identified about 9000 people that they thought might be non-citizens as they went.

Then through those 9000, they wound up with only 29 people who were in fact, non-citizens.

So, you know, as you begin to sort through all these problems, you find out the numbers are minuscule and often it's a result of somebodies error.

I mean, you know, we used to I mean, I don't know exactly how it works now, but at one time you went in secretary states to get your license changed.

And they would ask you, do you want to register to vote?

They did that when I when they asked me, they didn't ask me if I was a citizen, you know.

But so I mean, it is now we're becoming more and more concerned about those issues as immigration becomes a public issue.

If you had voted in the Republican primary for governor, you would have voted for Mike Cox, right?

No, I probably would have voted for Tom Leonard because Tom Leonard and I came from the same community and Montrose.

And I want to tell you that little town has produced two speakers and a lieutenant governor, and I would challenge any community in Michigan that can produce that kind of.

Yes.

But who dropped out?

Well, I know now.

So my thoughts.

Yes.

Have you had a chance to bid for my colleague since he was still on the ballot?

Oh, that's probably true.

Didn't you endorsed Mallory McMorrow?

I did, yes.

So now what are you going to vote for anyway, I did vote for it.

Now I got to figure out if I'm going to go change it this afternoon.

You're going to think about that?

Yeah.

Because, you know, the problem is, is what I'm seeing is all this negativity.

I'm having a hard time sorting through what each of these candidates really stand for the differential of both of them.

But they shouldn't be doing this because in the end, they're enhancing.

Mike Rogers, whose, campaign is the more they come after each other, the way they're doing that, it it's I don't know if it's so much the candidates as it is their campaign and their supporters.

But if you go on Facebook, I mean, you know, we all have our, logarithms, but so I get a lot of Democrats and I'm amazed at how these camps are just going after each other.

And, you know, it's not the majority.

It's it's a minority of very clear activists who've got an ax to grind.

Well, do you think the state, the heart and soul of this Michigan Democratic Party is on the ballot in this race for the U.S.

Senate that were either going to start to be more progressive, or we're going to sit them back and continue down that middle road?

I tend to think of it as more of a fight National.

It's it's a national political fight that is it's spinning over.

I mean, you don't see this happening in the gubernatorial race or the state races to the extent you see it happen in national race.

So there's a fight going on.

And, and, this is some of the congressional districts.

We dare you.

Okay.

Well, that's a national election.

You know, you talk about people dropping out.

Most of those drops out are occurring, where the where National Party has something at stake and they're exerting influence on candidates to whether they.

I mean, I would suspect that part of the pressure Mallory faced was the fact that the the establishment in D.C.

thought that her presence probably helped, aside in his election.

So they were encouraging her to get out because because Haley Stevens was there.

Can she have a future now that she's dropped out?

What's her future?

Well, you know, I don't know, but I would think she was articulate.

She did a great job at the national convention.

She had a she had some very strong grassroots support.

And I think that that will play in her favor in the future.

I, we we recently did polling on the gubernatorial primary and on the Democratic Party.

We've found Benson about 60 points ahead of Chris Swanson.

But if you go into Genesee County, which you're from, or the surrounding area, Swanson is incredibly popular.

What do you think?

That if Swanson loses the primary, what do you how do you think Benson reaches out to those folks?

Well, you know, I guess part of it will be who does she select as a lieutenant gubernatorial candidate?

And whether that person has the kind of appeal to the voters that Chris Swanson was attracting.

Because he is popular and and and he is running the, there is a, a trend that's occurring that occurred as a result of, of Covid, where street level politics has kind of retreated, which has opened up candidates to pressure because of the need to raise money to replace that door to door activity.

Chris has been a door to door, I'm on the scene type of candidate.

And so I think that's why he's popular, where he's at the statewide campaign.

However, it's hard to to, to penetrate in the course of just a few months, neighborhoods all over the state and so, Secretary of State Benson has an advantage.

She's raised money.

She's she's able to, use that money to project herself.

And and because she's a statewide officer, she's worked a number of the Democratic communities and Democratic leadership across the state.

That's a huge accrue to her advantage.

So should she consider him for LG?

Well, that would be a possibility.

I mean, I you know, I, I think there are a number of people that could do that.

Give me the other names and I'm Jim and and if there's one I would say would be a great.

You guys have been really tight in Genesee County.

Not sure you have anybody out of Genesee County.

Governor.

You know, we have to stick together because no one else advocates for us.

All right.

Anna Nicole Welch, Curtis Martell, you know, I think he's, he's got some Mid-Michigan draw.

Yeah.

You know, so that's I think there's possibilities and there's there's opportunities.

Wait, what do you make about what we talked about earlier in the show with these candidates who are already on the ballot, dropping out of the race?

I think that too, is this this national process that's going where where, the national parties are trying to control the process or at least control the national elections because street level politics doesn't play the role that it used to.

Money plays a bigger role.

Those those powers, those power centers have more control over the money than people back in the in the local neighborhoods and communities.

Still, they're using that money power to, to encourage and pressure candidates to get in or out.

And I think that's what you're seeing.

And I mean, you're right, it's happening all across the nation.

And and it's mostly in congressional and U.S.

Senate races.

You get how long did it take you to get over not being governor?

Oh, not very long.

You know, I mean, you know, things.

Where did you go?

Oh, well, if you recall the time and what it made difficult, the difficulty I had was the economy.

We were in a major recession then, and and so whoever became governor was going to face a significant problem.

I mean, it's not like you're walking into a candy store and not at all tough times.

So, I mean, it you know, I didn't dwell on it very long.

We talked quite a bit here, before the program on these mysterious nine bills.

Have you read about that?

That were a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, do you have any thoughts about that or anything like that ever occur when you were in the House and Senate that you can imagine?

I know you weren't in the majority, but whatever.

Occasionally there was some transfer issues, but I don't think not numbers and and not the drama surrounding them.

So I think this is a fairly new situation.

There was Mr.

Cherry, I got to jump in.

Thanks for showing up.

Okay.

It's good to see you.

Good to be here.

Have fun out of the event.

This defense issue.

Okay?

Okay.

Yeah.

It's, that's an important issue.

Thank you sir.

Thank you everybody, for watching.

See you right here for more Off the Record next week.

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